Possible bug?

[Arryn]

In a R'yleh game I'm playing (with Luck 2) I got a Vastness sometime just shy of turn 20. A few turns later I gave it the Gift of Reason. It's now 50 turns later and I have yet to summon another one (my current skill is 36). I have summoned over 2 dozen Greater Othernesses (usually I get a pair), but no more Vastnesses. In other games in which I had not done the Gift I would be getting a mix of Vastnesses and Greater Othernesses.

Is the game rigged (for play balance) so you cannot summon more of a creature of the type that's been Gifted? Is it not possible to Gift more than one of a given creature type? If so, then the spell description should tell you this. (I would have waited to get a few more before Gifting one of them.)

[ January 22, 2004, 11:08: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[Kristoffer O]

Above a certain summoning skill level the probability of a vastness decreases and multiple GO's are more common. The vastness should only disappear entirely when you have a ridicously high summoning skill (yes, 36 is ridicously high )

Ridicously, ridiculously, ridicule ??? Bah. Francophonetics. Sillily, silliously high? Damn language!

L�jligt h�ga v�rden!!! Speak Swedish for a better tomorrow

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Above a certain summoning skill level the probability of a vastness decreases and multiple GO's are more common.

Thanks!

Speak Swedish for a better tomorrow

Thank you, but I like English just fine. Just content yourself in the knowledge that Sweden is world-famous for 4 very good things: Volvo cars & trucks, Nobel prizes, jet fighter aircraft, and turn-based strategy games (Illwinter and Paradox, to name two companies).

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Above a certain summoning skill level the probability of a vastness decreases and multiple GO's are more common. The vastness should only disappear entirely when you have a ridicously high summoning skill (yes, 36 is ridicously high)

Upon further reflection, I have one question: why?

It makes little sense to be "penalized" for getting good. And the Vastness is certainly a better summon than even 2 GOs. IMO. Please reconsider the "logic" of making what is arguably the best summon in the game so awkward to get. If you want to make them rare, then skew the chances so that you need higher skill to get them. Not the current system where you only need skill 9-14 or so (which isn't that hard to do), and then after that you lose the ability to get what you've earned. The Vastness should be a reward for luck and diligence. Personally, I'd gladly trade a dozen-plus of my GOs for another one.

[Raz 24]

Leave it how it is , because I dont want somebody massing vastnessies

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Arryn:
Upon further reflection, I have one question: why?

It makes little sense to be "penalized" for getting good. And the Vastness is certainly a better summon than even 2 GOs. IMO. Please reconsider the "logic" of making what is arguably the best summon in the game so awkward to get. If you want to make them rare, then skew the chances so that you need higher skill to get them. Not the current system where you only need skill 9-14 or so (which isn't that hard to do), and then after that you lose the ability to get what you've earned. The Vastness should be a reward for luck and diligence. Personally, I'd gladly trade a dozen-plus of my GOs for another one.

I wouldn't mind a restriction of 1 vastness at a time, even. A vastness can take out most armies I've seen...

Alternately, if every vastness alive decreased the vastness summoning chances (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, ...) that would work just as well.

If high summoning skill let you mass vastnessess... Rlyeh would generally win at around turn 50, if it could simply survive that long, without even expanding. And was lucky.

I would second the 1 Vastness at a time scenario.

It would be a waiting game. Greater Othernesses are just fine for elite troops IMO and piles of those are more than enough for the risk of losing a cheap illithid priest.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
A vastness can take out most armies I've seen...

They're "only" good for chomping armies of about 20-30 normal troops (non-Jots). Solo, that is. They are much more effective if given a little support. I use mine, without support, to wreak havoc in the AI's rear areas.

Alternately, if every vastness alive decreased the vastness summoning chances (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, ...) that would work just as well.

That would be okay. It's reasonable and doesn't sound disbalancing.

If high summoning skill let you mass vastnessess... Rlyeh would generally win at around turn 50, if it could simply survive that long, without even expanding. And was lucky.

A bit of an exaggeration. At least if you play as I do on large maps like Orania, and with indies set to 7+. On smaller maps and/or with normal (ie: weak) indies, yes, I can see how Vastnesses can rule.

Of course, depending on the Victory Conditions it could/couldnot be as exploitive. Especially if you are playing on a larger map, because it gives the R'lyeh more time. A Vastness can take out most anything, including magical attacks (like Ashen Angels and Earth Attacks) and with a movement of 10, they can just jump with impunity wherever they want and you can't touch them.

There is a limit to things like Demon Lords (or is supposed to be, I've been able to get multiples, but I'm sure this is a bug), why not Vastnesses?

Perfectly acceptable considering they can get them any turn after 15+ or switch in and out summoners in order to try to 'maximize' the Vastness summoning.

Edit: A properly used Vastness can take out 80-100 Troops without much danger to themselves. But, as it's been said before, it's all in the equipment. Blood Vengance is a killer.

[ January 23, 2004, 07:35: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Zen:
Edit: A properly equipped Vastness

Eh? My Vastness has only a slot for gems. They'd be really abusive if they had equipment slots too.