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Old January 4th, 2004, 11:24 PM

Keir Maxwell Keir Maxwell is offline
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Default Some joy with Mictlan

Inspired by the writings of General Tacitius I figured I'd have another go with Mictlan.

Taloc the Smoking Mirror, fire4, death4, blood4, earth4
Order3, prod1, growth1, heat1, misfortune3
Castle, Dom6
Desert Sun (no wrap around), 7 impossible AI's, indie str 5, events rare, win dominon strength 656.

The plan is to use Sun Warriors as Javelin throwers with their high strength (blood blessing) and reinforce them with large number of mace, javelin armed foot by building castles early with the extra gold this design provides.

I hired the Elephant corp early and they helped get things rolling. I started blood searching early and built alot of the native priests. Construction 2 was the first target for jade knives and I have stayed at the top of the dominon rank from early using first one priest with a jade knife then later two - I'm impressed.

First army lead by my Priest King prophet (attacking turn 3) and a Tribal King who got quickness and has done devestation with a longbow of accuracy more recently. Casulties have been heavy but mainly on secondary troops so the Sun Warriors have built up to large number. I did make the mistake of putting them on both flanks early and when ther enemy came up the middle they threw javelins at each other.

The supporting Mace Javeling infantry have done very well as the game goes on though they have died in droves. I use a couple of standards per unit.

I have alot of tribal kings and thus generate a fair few Slave warriors but they are mainly useful for discouraging opponents to attack or us up lance attacks.

I started summoning Fiends of Darkness fairly early and have a force of 11 now (t.29) with a flying priest. I had to stop summoning awhile back as research became the priority.

Research was slow once the Smoking Mirror went site hunting in jaguar form. I had very little luck site hunting other than lots of earth gems which are hard to use lackign a native earth mage.

War came late vs Pythium (after t20) and has gone very well. Caelum has been raiding with calls of the winds and attacked a couple of turns back but I had kept plenty of forces in reserve and have launched a devestating counter attack.

The only bleak spot is C'tis casting Burden of Time which has been running 4 turns now and really hurting. I'm hitting enchantment 5 this turn and have enough astral gems to empower a Moon priest and I'll turn my horde of earth gems into astral for the dispel. I'm generating a horde of Clam Shells for future problems.

Its t.29 and I have 35 provinces and lead in all areas bar research. My income is probably close to that of all the remaining players combined. While there is some work to do basically the game is won and I figure once I set a couple more priests to work with Jade Knives I will get the dominion victory by ~t.40.

Sadly I doubt my blood economy (started t.4 and built slowly from there) will not have contributed beyond the 11 Fiends of Darkness. These have been good but not made that much difference as they haven't been fighting long and the big battles haven't been close. The biggest problem I had was how long it took me to get to con4 - then C'tis cast BoT and I had to forgo researching blood for enchantment.

Changes to be made.

Drop the earth on the Smoking Mirror. Sure its great for battle mages but I haven't really used any and while it helps the Sun Wariors fight its not crucial as throwing javelins doesn't seem to cause fatigue.

Raise magic scale to +2. I didn't find sages so I used the native priest as researchers and with magic2 they will be top knotch researchers.

The Smoking Mirror will research longer.

All this should enable me to get the blood going early and make it more a part of the game.

The other options would be to raise productivity to +3 allowing the building of alot more javeln throwers early. This has got to be good early but I'm determined to do something meaningful with blood without having to play on a large map - to much MM for me.

The biggest question I have is what are the best supporting Javelin throwers - the mace with more armour or spear with less? In close combat the spear armed are more appealling due to resource cheapness and repels ability so slow things to give time for the sun warriors to win it but vs missiles the extra protection is big. The spear armed only cost 8 resources compared to 13 so you can build alot of them. The advantage of sticking with the mace armed is that it leaves more gold for starting the blood economy.

In MP I don't think its enough to get a big army of javelin throwers as they are not up to what another player will throw at you. This means its necessary to make the blood economy work to get serious long term power.

Cheers

Keir
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Old January 4th, 2004, 11:42 PM

General Tacticus General Tacticus is offline
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Well, I am now at turn 36, and I can't say I have really played with blood yet. I have 5 nice devils, currently playing bodyguard on my pretender, who have never seen battle. I haven't used my sacred troops yet either, although I have a few. And the reason for both these facts is that I have been too busy taking advantage of opportunities to rush Pangea, then marignon. As a result, I have a nice territory, but not much else. I am currently taking advantage of a lapse in hostilities to try and organize a blood economy, build myself a real army (I relied heavily on mercs, protected by lots of cheap troops), and sort out my mages for combat.

Still, I expect the opportunity will come. Ulm has apparently been doing very well for itself in Europe, taking Vanheim's, Ermor's and Pythium's capitals. In fact, Pythium has been thrown out of the game. Ulm now leads in income, has more forts than any other AI, and still has a a few weak neighbours (Marignon and Pangea) to conquer. I expect a nice challenge when we meet. I must make magic work, preferably blood magic, or I'll be creamed. I have some time, but I must figure it out
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  #3  
Old January 5th, 2004, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

I started a Mictlani blood game too. Gurgelor the Smoking Mirror is Fire 4, Death 3, Nature 2, Blood 6, and the rest is something like Turmoil 1, Luck 3, Heat 2, Dominion 6, Dark Citadel.

I had never played Mictlan before, and think I would probably not take Nature on the pretender now that I realize there is a Blood 2 / Nature 2 Mictlani priest.

My intention is to try to try to get a fairly large amount of blood income fairly early, and try to make that my mainstay. Seems like one does want to get Construction 4 though as that adds a couple more +1 Blood items, the Sanguine Dousing Rod, and other stuff. At least with Mictlan, there are some premature blood summons available.

The pace at which you decide you've won a game is a bit staggering to me, though. We're essentially playing two different games from each other.

One thing I have had some success with is Eagle Warriors. Get a bunch, bless them, and have them Hold and Attack rearmost, wiping out enemy commanders. Mictlan has heaps of blessable national units, too - makes me think it might be a good choice for a bless bonus strategy.

PvK
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Old January 5th, 2004, 09:00 AM

Keir Maxwell Keir Maxwell is offline
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Quote:
Originally posted by PvK:

The pace at which you decide you've won a game is a bit staggering to me, though. We're essentially playing two different games from each other.
I'm having a tougher time finishing than I anticipated to be honest. Generally when I get this far ahead of the other races its all over very shortly after but with Mictlan your native troops are so weak this is not proving to be the case.

Caelum has counter attacked with lots of Spring Hawks and it has seesawed back and forth with me happy to hold my lines while finsihing Pythium. Pythium is gone (t.35) but Jotun got some of it and is looking my way now - nowhere else to go. This means I will get to use some serious blood. I'm up to hordes of Hell but I'm a couple of turns from Ice Devils as I need more water gems for empowering.

At this point I'm at least 10-15 turns away from victory (656dom score) and thats only if things go well. With the difficulty I'm finding making any headway with my native troops the demonic ones are going to be needed. Ice Devils work a treat vs Jotun and Caelum.

My next design is looking like.

Fountain of Blood, blood5, dom10
order3, prod1, growth3, heat1, misfortune3, magic3
Castle

This should provide a good start plus the research for getting blood up and running earlier. I'd like to get blood6 for the extra +1 str but i'm struggling to get a good points balence.

Cheers

Keir
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Old January 5th, 2004, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Interesting.

Curse Internet Explorer! I posted a nice turn-10 report on my game, but the connection failed and infernal Internet Explorer decided to forget the contents of the form, so it's lost. Excuse me while I cast Send Greater Horror on the Redmond province...



Ok, that's better. The abbreviated Version is I was doing fairly well on turn 10, but on turn 11 my neighbors hit back and I went from 8 (low-quality) provinces to 5. Getting into a two-opponent war (against Pangea and C'tis) by turn 10 is probably going to adversely affect my results.

However, I think the Mictlani Air Force seems to have potential. A bunch of blessed flying Eagle Warriors mixed with Fiends of Darkness (I have 3-4 by turn 12) often can cause havoc on AI armies by using Hold and Attack Rearmost.

I got my main conventional army cut off and starving though. Somehow, my heroic commander became diseased - looks like maybe they are not immune when their army starves. Contagion from hunger-sick troops?

(OT: Re: The Death and Taxes thread:
Since he was cut off next to the C'tis home province, I decided to try setting tax to 200 AND pillaging with his 30 men - they killed over 500 population (about 15%!) and confiscated 26 gold, while the taxes were only going to yield 12. Unrest is up to 99 in one turn. Looks like pillaging is much more effective that just turning up the tax - looks like reasonable effects to me.)

PvK
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Old January 5th, 2004, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Turn 15:

Fighting back, forth, and through (my cut-off army managed to fight its way back through C'tis, and half of them even made it back without afflictions), I have been keeping at 5 provinces. I was fortunate that Caelum showed up complete with maticore pretender and started mopping up the desert with Pangea.

I'm now the lowest nation in all the stats except research. I've got four Fiends of Darkness, a Jade Athame, and a Sanguine Dousing Wand, a general, 4 mage/priests, my pretender, 55 troops and 36 slaves. In these wasteland provinces, one must be careful with the slaves or risk starvation - I'd think the slaves would be the Last ones to receive food...

I lucked out and FOUND a soul contract that would ordinarily require 80 blood slaves to create.

I think though that part of the hard time I've been having, is due to the tough start of 12 near-impossible AI enemies on a fairly small map.

PvK
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Old January 5th, 2004, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Turn 17:

Doing a lot better. That contract brings one devil per turn - not bad at all. Had a conflict with a major C'tis army of over 50 lizard men and wiped them out with the Air Force. Two castings of Summon Imp hit a side unit, which wouldn't be a big deal except it split their army in half as half of them went to kill imps. Then 6-7 devils & fiends with about 16 Eagle Warriors descended and within a turn or two their whole army broke and ran, without even having killed any commanders. I had a ground force there too which wasn't even needed.

Oh, both "gem" income and research have remained in the running in the stats throughout the game. I think I can get 2-3 demons or fiends per turn at this point, and I don't think I've lost any so far, so I think things are looking up somewhat, as long as no one's uber army shows up too soon.

PvK
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Old January 5th, 2004, 12:33 PM

Keir Maxwell Keir Maxwell is offline
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Quote:
Originally posted by PvK:
I think though that part of the hard time I've been having, is due to the tough start of 12 near-impossible AI enemies on a fairly small map.
Oh yeah thats tough. I'm being somewhat more cautious and taking on 8 impossible on the Desert Eye which leave a fair amount of room.

A huge part of playing Mictlan seems to be not getting into early wars - they just haven't got the grunt. This is scary for MP when everybody knows it.

cheers

Keir
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Old January 5th, 2004, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Mictlan gets some nifty heroes also.

Mictlipoctli the King of Legends: a mummy with Death 3, Blood 3 and Unholy 3.

Quetzalcoatl the Feather Serpent: a couatl who has Astral 3, Nature 3, Blood 2 and Holy 4 and can assume human form.
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Old January 5th, 2004, 09:51 PM

Keir Maxwell Keir Maxwell is offline
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Default Re: Some joy with Mictlan

Quote:
Originally posted by ywl:
Mictlan gets some nifty heroes also.

Mictlipoctli the King of Legends: a mummy with Death 3, Blood 3 and Unholy 3.

Quetzalcoatl the Feather Serpent: a couatl who has Astral 3, Nature 3, Blood 2 and Holy 4 and can assume human form.
Very nice - thanks for the info. I'm tempted to go to misfortune 2 so I get a chance of getting these guys.

Cheers

Keir
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