Wisdom on Pyrithum killing?

Saxon · #1 December 29th, 2003, 08:28 AM

In a match against the computer, in the early expansion phase, I attacked some independent Dark Vines with the bulk of my forces. I did not know they were so strong….

Result: I am behind. Actually, I am number two out of six, but Pyrithum is a very long way ahead. They got some hydras early on and swarmed all over the independents. I killed those, but they have a big lead in everything except research and gems. I am Mariagon with a level 9 Great Sage Pretender. Perhaps not the best choice, but I wanted defense to beef up my Flagellent holy units and was sick of being behind in research.

My question is, how do I beat Pyrithum back down to size? As another threat states, they are pretty well rounded. I am hopeful that they are running into other nations now and being slowed down. It is a big map and hope that their expansion will be limited as they fight everyone at once. I have also gotten a foothold in the oceans and expect to be able to take all of them. With the flying units, it is cheap to get a small group of effective patrollers and then max the taxes. However, I was hoping for some nation specific take down hints from your collective wisdom!

#2 December 29th, 2003, 10:25 AM

The same way you beat down any good race. Kill them in pieces, or take away their strength. Pythium is particularly weak to assassinations, if you can get them through.

Cripple their economy; use things like Storms (by items or spells) to stop the use of so many javalins.

The problem with Pythium is they have no weak point so the longer you let them grow the better they get at everything.

Saxon · #3 December 29th, 2003, 11:08 AM

Assassins? Hmm, worth a try as I have them in my home castle and with Forge of Ancients coming, I can afford to deck them out a bit.

I also just bought a nice mercenary outfit that should be able to romp through some of their more isolated provinces and distract them. Hopefully, they will split their forces and I can break them down one at a time, as you suggest. As you say though, they get stronger with time and they have had a fair bit. The fun part will be to see if it is too late.

Any other suggestions are welcome!

Gandalf Parker · #4 December 29th, 2003, 04:07 PM

put lots of scouts in their area and if you find any provinces that are weakly protected then drop troops on them (sneak armys, call of winds, call of wild, horder from hell, arouse hunger, and many many more). If you take it and cant hold it then just crank the taxes to 200% and take another. If you can drive the unrest over 100 then it will be worthless to him for awhile even if he does get it back.

Break up their large armys by taking out commanders. Force them to leave large amounts of troops behind and bring them up later when they can replace the commander (assassins, seeking arrow, disease, sending in kakazes with things like Bow of Beotulf that makes mages unable to lead summons)

Send them things like that bladder on a stick (if their leaders arent protected from poison) They attack anyone and the leader uses it poisoning himself and all leaders near him, There are other items that can cause havok also.

Force him into war with someone else. One thing Ive found useful is to send any stealth units that can cause uprisings or preach to his borders on the OTHER side of you. If he borders someone else then send to both of them. Force him to beef up troops on someone elses border. Eventually, Im not sure if its mistrust from seeing a buildup or an attack of opportunity, (Ive never been able to see who starts it) war will break out.

[ December 29, 2003, 14:09: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

apoger · #5 December 29th, 2003, 04:19 PM

Learn Paralyze. Have the Grand Masters use this to lock up the Hydra.

Either learn Light of the Northern Star or construct Banners of the Northern Star. This gets your astral mages +1. Now your Witch Hunters can Paralyze, Grand Masters can cast Soul Slay and Astral Fires.

Mass crossbow.

Learn Flaming Arrows, and make the massed crossbow even more fierce.

Phoenix Power/Incinerate is a simple and effective battlefield spell combo for Witch Hunters.

Graeme Dice · #6 December 29th, 2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

With the flying units, it is cheap to get a small group of effective patrollers and then max the taxes.

Maxing taxes for more than a couple of turns is almost a universally bad idea for any nation that relies on gold production. Maximum taxes kill very large amounts of population every turn, no matter how many patrollers you have.

Saxon · #7 December 30th, 2003, 06:32 AM

All sound advice, which I will use in my new game. Fought for three hours Last night, holding him with some success, but then another nation fell off the graph. The next thing I knew I had three armies coming at me, all bigger than my total forces. Then he outbid me on my mercenaries, so part of what little I had left disappeared. Then he ate my Last big force. Then I watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer on DVD.

I am trying again with the same map and same pretender. I now know that I should have designed him differently, but I want to win with him, as he is. My tip for the day is not to mix a rainbow with a bless effects and researcher pretender, you spread him too thin.

Saxon · #8 December 30th, 2003, 06:53 AM

Graeme,

In your experience, what is the best figure for high taxes which will not gut a province? I like to take the sea provinces mid game and tax farm them, if no aquatic races are about.

Thanks!

Jasper · #9 December 30th, 2003, 12:07 PM

That would be 100% taxes, in my experience. I toyed with higher taxes during, but the combination of population destruction and needing to patrol made it seem not worthwhile to me.

I'd only over tax populations if I was desperate, or knew I couldn't keep the province.

apoger · #10 December 30th, 2003, 05:00 PM

>So, any suggestions on a nice percentage where you do not reduce your population too much?

There is none.

Your choice is just to savage the province fast or slow, but it will get savaged. It's only worthwhile to raise taxes if you are totally willing to sacrifice the population for a slight boost *now*.

There are a few nations where it's worthwhile to open the game with a bit of high taxing at the capital. This is clearly a trade of gold now versus heavy loss later, however getting a boost on the first few turns is sometimes worth the trouble. Other than that... taxes might as well be set in stone at 100%. The only other time I change taxes is too purposely damage a province that I don't intend to hold.

IMHO it's sad that you don't have much option to cultivate the gold economy in Dom2, but that's the situation. I suggest practicing blood hunting with scouts, as that's the only economy that can be controlled/cultivated.

[ December 30, 2003, 15:00: Message edited by: apoger ]