tactic vs underwater

reverend · #1 December 16th, 2003, 01:45 PM

since i'm mostly playing ulm (have to, i live there

), i have a problem when facing underwater nations (espacially r'lyeh). i can repel their attacks, throw them back into the sea if they conquer one of my provinces.

but i want to take the battle to them. ulm (at least with my setup) isn't that good at magic. i usually go with earth and fire magic, which gives some good items, and fire magic helps in land battles. underwater of course it's nearly useless.

conquering an amphibian inhabited province seems the best way so far. i'm curious whether there are better ways. would empowering work? give a commander or spellcasting mercenary water magic?

NTJedi · #2 December 16th, 2003, 04:34 PM

If your Ulm and fighting an enemy from underwater then I suggest you invest in either Air, Water or Death magic. These magics will allow ways for you to fight back... either by creating items or casting spells.

conquering an amphibian inhabited province will take many turns to raise an army.

[ December 16, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

ywl · #3 December 16th, 2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reverend:
since i'm mostly playing ulm (have to, i live there ), i have a problem when facing underwater nations (espacially r'lyeh). i can repel their attacks, throw them back into the sea if they conquer one of my provinces.

but i want to take the battle to them. ulm (at least with my setup) isn't that good at magic. i usually go with earth and fire magic, which gives some good items, and fire magic helps in land battles. underwater of course it's nearly useless.

conquering an amphibian inhabited province seems the best way so far. i'm curious whether there are better ways. would empowering work? give a commander or spellcasting mercenary water magic?

Crusher and the Clockwork Horror should be amphibian though they might fight well enough.

Gandalf Parker · #4 December 16th, 2003, 05:25 PM

Most water units fight badly (if at all) on land. And land units tend to fight badly in water. What I tend to do is build an army that can go into the water (constructs, undead, shamblers, whatever) and when a water-capable set of mercs come up I let that decide my timing.

I try to take one out of the way spot so I can start building up WATER units there. Dont keep marching forward and spread yourself too thin. It works best to try and take water provinces with water units.

Remember that any mage with a water magic skill can enter the water. If it has more than one water magic it can take another ait-breather (1 for each water point) with him.

Teraswaerto · #5 December 16th, 2003, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Most water units fight badly (if at all) on land.

I think illithids would disagree with this statement.

#6 December 16th, 2003, 06:08 PM

Golems do very well against the Squiddies, investing in a few of those to get a foothold works very well. Remember when fighting Squiddies; it's the numbers that really matter. If they can mind bLast 50 'elite' units and you only have 75, you are fairly bad off. However, if they can mind bLast 50 and you have 200 trash units, you'll win nearly every time.

ywl · #7 December 16th, 2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:
Golems do very well against the Squiddies, investing in a few of those to get a foothold works very well. Remember when fighting Squiddies; it's the numbers that really matter. If they can mind bLast 50 'elite' units and you only have 75, you are fairly bad off. However, if they can mind bLast 50 and you have 200 trash units, you'll win nearly every time.

Golem is good - obviously.

Golem needs Astral. Something that a "magically poor" Ulm doesn't usually have. It also needs Construction 7, comparing to Crusher and Clockwork Horrors at Construction 5. And also, Golem is susceptible to Mind Duel of R'lyeh. It's fine versus computer but could be dangerous if it's against human.

#8 December 16th, 2003, 07:10 PM

Yes, the reason I said Golem is because they are 'little SC's vs Squiddies and when taking on any underwater any nation you will have alot of provinces that can attack your coastal lands and you can attack as well.

Also Golem is a Commander, so it does not need a commander to drive him around; which is one issue that you will find with armies of Crushers and Clockworks; if their mage commander(s) die (because he's the only thing with a mind, so all the Squids target them) they all die too

reverend · #9 December 16th, 2003, 09:48 PM

great input!

hadn't really thought of constructs / golems. shows how much i still have to learn. (only got the game yesterday)

Quote:

Remember that any mage with a water magic skill can enter the water. If it has more than one water magic it can take another ait-breather (1 for each water point) with him.

does this include empowered spies? one scuba-diving scout should help determine where to attack with the rest of the army. the construct approach sounds good since i'm researching construction anyway, but i think i'll go with masses of shamblers. never really had a gold problem, and they cost only 1 resource per unit. should be enough to form the bridgehead. (or whatever they call it underwater

)

and, yes, this is vs. AI.

SurvivalistMerc · #10 December 16th, 2003, 10:12 PM

Reverend,

Empowerment costs 50 gems for the first level of skill.

It might be better to empower another mage if you have no one skilled in water...and then just give shambler skin armor to your spy.

I like the armor for unarmored units because it gives a bit of protection and costs the same as a water breathing ring.

Not that protection will help your scout much if he's discovered.