Exploit: create other breathing population

Slick · #1 December 15th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Maybe this is common knowledge, but I came across this unexpectedly in a single player game and realized that it could be used as an exploit. I usually take strong measures to keep my empire happy. The benefits of being Jubilant and the pain of Riots makes it worth it. So I normally don't have any happiness problems. In SP games, I like to increase the event frequency to add spice to the game. In a recent SP game, I had a small planet deep in my empire rebel due to a random event. This was in the late game and I had conquered a couple of other empires, but still had no hydrogen breathing populations. The rebelled planet was on a hydrogen planet previously populated by my native population and thus domed. When I checked, the newly rebelled race were hydrogen breathers (!) with no dome. Needless to say, this 1-small-planet empire in the middle of my empire was easy pickings for capture or surrender. Then it occurred to me that a player could have planned this by intentionally letting a protected planet with a different atmosphere riot and then rebel. Once rebelled, the population converts atmosphere breathing and its population is available to the first conqueror. If done in the early game, it could seriously change the balance of the game.

In another game a long time ago, this happened to an enemy and I made the 1-planet empire surrender to me. I didn't realize the atmosphere changing at this time because the planet was of the same atmosphere as the parent empire. I really cashed in on the techs when they surrendered because these rebelled empires have all the technology of the previous empire. Now there is a risk to doing this intentionally - if this new empire surrenders to one of your enemies, they get lots of your techs. I would conisder this, if done intentionally, a "cheesy" exploit. But I thought you all might be interested in this - or maybe I was the only one who didn't know about it.

Slick.

geoschmo · #2 December 15th, 2003, 06:00 PM

How exactly do you cause a planet to rebel? There is is a random event, and an intel op that will cause this. But simply allowing them to riot doesn't cause them to rebel at some point later as far as I know.

There is a patch item in the latest beta that addresses this spontaneous creation of new population I think. I'll have to double check that.

Arkcon · #3 December 15th, 2003, 06:01 PM

The switch to breathable must have been put in a recent patch. In the old days, the planet stayed domed. Maybe we could return to that method -- it's not like these planets really stand a chance in any case.

[EDIT]

Geo, you beat me by one minute. Rats.

[ December 15, 2003, 16:03: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Slick · #4 December 15th, 2003, 06:02 PM

Just lower your happiness in your empire setup, research troops early to keep your selected planets happy. Set up a protected system with all the other planet types, colonize and let them riot and rebel. Then make them surrender. Then eat your cheese.

[edit: I thought a rioting planet would rebel after some time. If this is not the case then this whole discussion is wrong.]

[edit2: from happiness.txt:

Population Happiness Effects:
- Riot prevents any point generation from that planet.
- If a planet riots for sufficient time, it may rebel.
- Rebellion changes the planet to a new owner.
- Happiness level modifies output of the planet.

]

Slick.

[ December 15, 2003, 16:12: Message edited by: Slick ]

Arkcon · #5 December 15th, 2003, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slick:
Just lower your happiness in your empire setup, research troops early to keep your selected planets happy. Set up a protected system with all the other planet types, colonize and let them riot and rebel. Then make them surrender. Then eat your cheese.

[edit: I thought a rioting planet would rebel after some time. If this is not the case then this whole discussion is wrong.]

Slick.

Make them research colonies. Don't conquer them too fast. Let them do some research on their own. Then get some extra technology.

Burger with melted cheese and cheese sauce, anyone?

oleg · #6 December 15th, 2003, 06:10 PM

Very strange. I had many rebelions and population never changed. Not a single time

Idid see suddedn jump in population (extra 2B people) but no change in atmosphere breath.

Q · #7 December 15th, 2003, 06:23 PM

"- If a planet riots for sufficient time, it may rebel."

I believe "may" is the crucial point that prohibits a systematic exploit. It may take a very long time and you will not be sure that you get a desired atmosphere. And if I am not wrong, you will not have rebellions at all if there are already 20 empires in the game.

Slick · #8 December 15th, 2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Q:
"- If a planet riots for sufficient time, it may rebel."

I believe "may" is the crucial point that prohibits a systematic exploit. It may take a very long time and you will not be sure that you get a desired atmosphere. And if I am not wrong, you will not have rebellions at all if there are already 20 empires in the game.

If you set it up early and pick the atmosphere types by colonizing selected planets, you should be able to harvest the breathers of your choice by mid-game. Good point about the 20 empire limit, though.

Slick.

Fyron · #9 December 15th, 2003, 07:04 PM

Rebellions can create in excess of 20 empires.

geoschmo · #10 December 15th, 2003, 07:37 PM

Has anyone actually seen a planet rebel after rioting? I've had test games with planets rioting for decades that never rebelled. I have never seen a planet rebel other than intel, except for the very occasional rebellion that seemed to be the random event because in the couple cases where it happened the planet wasn't even unhappy.

I know this used to happen quite often in SE3, and I know it's in the files for SE4, but I believe it has never worked.

Geoschmo