America the Police State

[Gozra]

[quote]
sachmo said:
A civil war in america will never happen again for one reason...you can't get enough Americans to care about something enough that they would be willing to SACRIFICE for it.

How do you justify this staement? (bear in mind I want you to be right in ths assertion)

Current an past american history would refute your statement.
try the 10% rule if 30 million americans oppose their government and assume 3 million really want to do something about it
and of those 3 million 300,000 are competent to do anything about it well the federal government has some problems. I see signs that the white house knows we have severe problems but are unwilling or unable to take care of them.
Right now the War in Iraq is reducing our Military's ablity to do it's job. Veterans from the Iraq war are showing up in Homeless shelters in increasing numbers. The liberal's are frothing at the mouth that the Republicans have taken so much of their base power away. The Governors race in Washington state is still undecided. Coporate America is about to get it's payback for political support of the current administration. People are still losing jobs as our economy retools for this century. And the current adminstration is turning back the environmental clock. I think people will be getting plenty to get mad about and this summer will prove to be hot and weird as it may sound hot can mean riots. With the new laws of the patirot act well abuse of those laws might be tolerated until it is too late. I hope that this Titor fellow is just a very clever Hoaxer but it would be prudent to have an informed discussion and think through things.

[sachmo]

Americans are lazy, self-involved marshmallows. I'll revise that view when reality tv stops being popular.

Seriously, I don't see things as being nearly bad enough to incite anyone but extremists to armed conflict. There are too many other ways to get things done besides killing folks. People just have to pay attention to what's going on, which they start to do when their paycheck or homelife get's altered. Healthcare will be a prime example. As costs go up, more and more people start to pay attention to what is happening and why. Eventually, we'll figure out what to do to keep costs in check, and the successful politicians will follow along with the will of the people.

[Gozra]

How bad were things in the summer of 1859? The North was prosperous the South had plenty. Immigrants were pouring in because jobs and work was plentiful. But… Slave states had vowed that if Lincoln were elected president they would split from the Union and did so. The Civil war was about ideologies not how ‘Bad’ things were.
Look at us now things aren’t bad but we have huge Ideological differences The Liberal side is in disarray at the moment but you can see signs they are fighting back. Some are convinced that only civil war or revolution will help their cause. ELF just made another terrorist attack and we can expect more from them. The liberal media keep pounding that Iraq is wrong, wrong, wrong In spite of the success that is taking place there. Howard Dean is Democratic party Chairman. And the liberals are trying to get their views taken as gospel. And it looks like they are getting their propaganda more and more accepted. And you can bet that the Republicans are going to do their utmost to get and keep power so you have a powder keg that can be torched off.
Titor claims that this Civil war slowly gets started and like the events leading up to the Civil war it slowly drew everyone into the conflict. All I am after is a rational discussion about the possibilities Titor suggests and so far as I can tell the news articles supports his out look and predictions.

And just what do you think the will of the people is that we are almost split 50 50?

[sachmo]

Gozra said:
How bad were things in the summer of 1859? The North was prosperous the South had plenty. Immigrants were pouring in because jobs and work was plentiful. But… Slave states had vowed that if Lincoln were elected president they would split from the Union and did so. The Civil war was about ideologies not how ‘Bad’ things were.
Look at us now things aren’t bad but we have huge Ideological differences The Liberal side is in disarray at the moment but you can see signs they are fighting back. Some are convinced that only civil war or revolution will help their cause. ELF just made another terrorist attack and we can expect more from them. The liberal media keep pounding that Iraq is wrong, wrong, wrong In spite of the success that is taking place there. Howard Dean is Democratic party Chairman. And the liberals are trying to get their views taken as gospel. And it looks like they are getting their propaganda more and more accepted. And you can bet that the Republicans are going to do their utmost to get and keep power so you have a powder keg that can be torched off.
Titor claims that this Civil war slowly gets started and like the events leading up to the Civil war it slowly drew everyone into the conflict. All I am after is a rational discussion about the possibilities Titor suggests and so far as I can tell the news articles supports his out look and predictions.

And just what do you think the will of the people is that we are almost split 50 50?

I just can't agree with that pessimistic, or far right, of an attitude. I hope you can find some nugget of hope for the future, but if not, and you are right, I promise I won't come banging on your shelter door. I'm going to loot the local grocery store and go out eating Twinkies and all of the things I'm not allowed to these days.

[Gozra]

Not going to have a Shelter. I thought that would be a way to go but as I got older I belive being in a community of good folk would be a better way to go. And looting the local grocery store would work for a month maybe two if you were willing to kill off most of the people you were at the store with. We have a very fragil network and it depends on everyone cooperating. If 300,000 of us decided to take action and commence a guerilla type uprising there would be a lot of hardship in a very short time. I think the evidence for social unrest is begining to mount. I am curious why the white house choose a Meat company that directly states that it insures that it's animals are not fed food made from other animals or hormones or a lot of other stuff that has been shown not to be good for human consumption for it's inaugral bar-b-que? Does someone know something that we don't know? And when the public becomes aware how will they act? And is it coincidence that the FDA will be cutting back it's meat inspections?
Titor may be a big Hoax but the guy made some very good guesses and the worse that can happen about being prepared for the worst is that everyone can laugh at you. I can live with that.

[sachmo]

Gozra,

did you see the movie Conspiracy Theory? Just wonderin'.

[Gozra]

Nope don't watch movies too much I just read a lot of news and think about stuff. I pretty much want to be wrong about this American police state / Civil war.
And I am curious about Information flow in organazation. I constantly see bad decisions being made by people in charge based on the interptation of the data they have. time and again one or two people come to the correct conclusion based on the data they collect. But most times most people simply don't ever arrive at the correct conclusion until it's too late.

[Baron Munchausen]

New weapons technologies continue to develop.

Robotic soldiers right out of 'The Terminator' are not far away:

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001377.html

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001246.html

Chemical explosives continue to become more powerful, so that the gap between 'conventional' and 'nuclear' weapons may be blurred one day:

http://www.technologyreview.com/arti...012105.asp?p=1

And even basic 'guns' are developing into new forms that use no 'propellant', have no sound, muzzle flash, or recoil, and can fire at unbelievable rates:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules...rticle&sid=526

[Rasorow]

Yep, dont know how to live together but we know how to kill each other.


Rasorow

[Gozra]

Just read an article that Liberalism is dead. https://ssl.tnr.com/p/docsub.mhtml?i...s=peretz022805
Wonder what happens next. I did note that some of the points the author tried to make was a bit behind the times in reguard to the fact the a lot of folks are asleep about China.