SE IV Gold: Starting tech levels? Yes or No?

[dmm]

All we need is for MM to put in an option to allow save/read gamefiles as ASCII. Judging from historical precedent with other games, someone else will then quickly write a shareware scenario editor. (Notice I say "option." During the setup of a game one could simply disable the option to save gamefiles as ASCII.)

[dogscoff]

In theory, starting techs should be more or less modddable using racial techs. Just as one race starts with organics and another doesn't you could mod the files with a series of "parallel" racial tech areas so that a race can spend points to start with (say) fighters.

Can some more experienced modder confirm this for me? I think it would involve a lot of work.

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Mark Walton]

quote:

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Originally posted by dogscoff:
[QB]In theory, starting techs should be more or less modddable using racial techs. Just as one race starts with organics and another doesn't you could mod the files with a series of "parallel" racial tech areas so that a race can spend points to start with (say) fighters.

[QB]

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Not claiming to be a more experienced modder, but in my limited experience this will work- but, ther are complications.

You can copy the tech and make it race only, and copy all the components, facilities, vehiclesizes etc. so the player can use them.

However the game will see them as seperate entities, so if a player with RacialFighters captures an enemy ship with normal Fighter tech, they wil not be able to repair the fighter bays.
Also the tech will not be tradable.

// End of answer

// Start of wild fantasy

It would be good (for SE4 platinum, perhaps) to change the way tech trees work, with an extra field to say a racial tech is also researchable
- or perhaps any racial tech with a prequisite means, you can either buy the racial skill OR research the lead-in tech.

- or alter components etc to have multiple "Tech Req" blocks; if the player satisifes any of them they understand the item.

something like:

Number of Tech Req variation : 2
Number of Tech 1 Req := 1
Tech Area 1 Req 1 := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Level 1 Req 1 := 2
Number of Tech 2 Req := 1
Tech Area 2 Req 1 := Resupply
Tech Level 2 Req 1 := 3

[Q]

quote:

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Originally posted by dogscoff:
In theory, starting techs should be more or less modddable using racial techs. Just as one race starts with organics and another doesn't you could mod the files with a series of "parallel" racial tech areas so that a race can spend points to start with (say) fighters.

Can some more experienced modder confirm this for me? I think it would involve a lot of work.

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

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I believe this could be done in theory. But I am sure that it would be a terrible amount of work: You would have to make a new modification for each race and every new game where you wanted a different set of starting tech levels. And always all your old empire files would be out of use! Absolutely not practicable.

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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I believe this could be done in theory. But I am sure that it would be a terrible amount of work: You would have to make a new modification for each race and every new game where you wanted a different set of starting tech levels. And always all your old empire files would be out of use! Absolutely not practicable.

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Or, you could create a racial trait for "Starts with Fighter tech Level 2", just like my nomads in P&N.
Repeat for all the different techs, and after a ton of work, you never have to do it again: just pick different racial traits rather than different mods.
This would be easiest on the short tech trees, and hard but possible for even the "prerequisite techs".

[Captain Kwok]

I sent an e-mail to Aaron, so hopefully he'll be able to reply soon, and we'll see what he thinks about starting tech levels...

[Q]

quote:

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Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I sent an e-mail to Aaron, so hopefully he'll be able to reply soon, and we'll see what he thinks about starting tech levels...

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Any news??

[Mephisto]

I don't think that it will be included in the gold Version. It would require code changes and therefore play testing. And unfortunately GOLD is running out of time if we want to meet the release date.

[Daynarr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I think there's a little bit of misunderstanding.

You wouldn't have to edit the files.

You can keep the current SEIV racial trait system etc., and just have the starting tech levels as a free option to give particular technologies to a race at the start of a game...it would be quite useful for roleplaying and making scenarios...and you could even make really challenging games against the AI for yourself.

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That is not as easy as it looks. AI uses scripts to determine its ship designs, production and research. If you just give AI some starting techs, he is still going to design same old ships and follow the same research path.

That basically means that if you give AI some technology it doesn't normally research and use, he STILL won't use it.

And in order to give AI some more advanced techs that he WILL research, you would have to know exact research path for EACH AI.

This could be the basic reason why MM didn't implement this type of game in SE4 - it uses different game mechanic from SE3.

[Q]

Daynarr I do not think this is a big problem. In the worst case you give the AI some technology that he will not use. So what?
And the major technologies as colonization, ship construction, shields, fighters and so on are the same for all races.
I don't know how SE IV exactely handles this, but I believe that the available tech levels for a race are stored somewhere in the savegame file. For MM it should not be too difficult to edit this in the setup of the game.
I really believe the starting tech levels would greatly add to the variety of the game and should be high on the priority list. If not for the gold Version itself, then for the next patch.