Para SAMs?

[scorpio_rocks]

Hiya folks,

Quick question: In a fantasy OoB I wanted SAM (Stinger) armed Paratroops. As there is no dedicated Para SAM unit class, Do I create:

a) Para Light Inf (class 98) with a Stinger in weapon slot 1

OR

b) Infantry SAM (class 29) ???

My guess is that (a) may not fire at aircraft? and (b) wont survive jumping out of airplanes?

[Mobhack]

A) wont be able to add EW so the missile will be a wet noodle when planes carry EW.

A) may well react oddly in reaction fires since infantry units aren't meant to have SAM (though some OOB designers have added MANPADS to special farces teams, regardless). Especially - the AI may well have any such wandering about the place like regular grunts do, and not halted in overwatch positions, so useless to it.

Option a therefore is not really supposed to happen.

B) Is what MANPADS are meant to be. It is a bit less survivable than a para if thrown out the back end of a perfectly useful plane while dangling off a silk hankerchief, but then again any electronics you dump out the back end of a plane will suffer from such an event. Just look at the problems that Rapier had with being stored in ships cargo holds for the voyage down South.

There are no "para ATGM" or "para SAM" classes. Lets face it, paratrooping is a sub-sub-uber rarely utilised niche these days, and any support troops are far more likely to be helicoptered in post an infantry para assault on say an airfield once its relatively secured.

[DRG]

I agree with Andy on that .......I suspect paras would only be used to secure a place to land the Helos

[Airborne Rifles]

Not to be disagreeable but...I am a paratrooper

Airborne drops are still very relevant, which is why nearly every country in the world maintains some form of parachute infantry formation. For some good examples of post-WWII parachute drops:

-Operation Dragon Rouge in Zaire, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dragon_Rouge

-Tangil Drop, 1971 Indo-Pakistani War, classic use of vertical envelopment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangail_Airdrop

More recently a battalion of the US 75th Ranger Regiment jumped into Kandahar early during Operation Enduring Freedom, and the 173rd Airborne Brigade jumped into norther Iraq in 2003. That last jump has been criticized because the drop zone was already secured by special forces, but the fact is the brigade jumped because landing that many aircraft and debarking the troops would have taken hours as opposed to the minutes it takes to deliver the troops by parachute. Also, the French 11th Parachute Brigade dropped 250 soldiers into Mali to help secure Timbuktu in 2011, and Pakistan dropped paratroopers to secure key terrain against the Pakistani Taliban in 2009.

I'm not denying that airborne operations aren't inherently risky and only appropriate under very specific circumstances, but a massed armored assault is also only appropriate under certain circumstances.

As far as paratroopers and MANPADs in the real world, just do a google search for "Stinger Missile Jump Pack." I've jumped it (not with a missile inside), and it's no fun, but it gets stuff to the ground intact.

Anyway, not asking for anything to change in any OOB, just want to stick up for us lowly paratroopers!

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

There are no "para ATGM" or "para SAM" classes. Lets face it, paratrooping is a sub-sub-uber rarely utilised niche these days, and any support troops are far more likely to be helicoptered in post an infantry para assault on say an airfield once its relatively secured.

UnitClass 142=Para Inf-AT

UnitClass 207=Para-ATGM Team

UnitClass 213=Para Hy Inf-ATGM

Those I found in the game guide as far as "Para ATGM" goes. As far as a "Para SAM" is concerned, there is just the Infantry SAM class but some Para formations in the game have the Infantry SAMs jumping also and they have worked fine for me.

[Suhiir]

I've also dumped normal infantry MPADS out of aircraft with good success.

My father was in the 82nd post Korea and once told me that if you're doing only a single jump you're better off not being fully trained as the cumulative injury rate during training and the 5 qualifying jumps is pretty darn high.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Felix Nephthys

UnitClass 142=Para Inf-AT

UnitClass 207=Para-ATGM Team

UnitClass 213=Para Hy Inf-ATGM

Those I found in the game guide as far as "Para ATGM" goes. As far as a "Para SAM" is concerned, there is just the Infantry SAM class but some Para formations in the game have the Infantry SAMs jumping also and they have worked fine for me.

The casualty rate for "regular Joes" out the back of a plane is not much higher than paras really.

As to no infantry SAM class for them - paras are only for scenarios where you have air supremacy, so the enemy wont have fighters striking your troops (or the transports would be hacked down too!). So air defence weapons would be superfluous.

There are only 255 unit classes - and they got used up a long time ago, with nobody wanting para SAMs.

[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

As to no infantry SAM class for them - paras are only for scenarios where you have air supremacy, so the enemy wont have fighters striking your troops (or the transports would be hacked down too!). So air defence weapons would be superfluous.

That makes a LOT of sense actually! and I should have thought of it myself.

Thanks guys

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

As to no infantry SAM class for them - paras are only for scenarios where you have air supremacy, so the enemy wont have fighters striking your troops (or the transports would be hacked down too!). So air defence weapons would be superfluous.

Another excellent point.