Map: Choke Mountains

[wilphart]

You'll need to run this thru semi-random. I built this so I could beat the computer w/Niefelheim; I always start off strong with the dual bless, but fall hard on anything but a small map because the provincial defense isn't up to par.

This is a funny non-equilateral pentagon grid that I've used before and I like. I made the diagonals neighbors, but there are enough seas and mountains to make several clusters of land divided by narrow lanes one or two wide.

I worked hard to get it to look right, but I don't know what I'm doing. I've messed with typing scripts in on previous maps. I didn't do that on this one, because it's too much trial and error and I didn't have a special theme in mind anyway.

A couple of noob questions that are probably answered somewhere, but I didn't find them after considerable browsing:

a) Is there a way to get the caves to have an automatic "darkness" spell? Or is darkness automatic (even without a global icon?) and/or do I need to mod a monster who casts it?

b) is there a list of magic sites and what they do to make picking and choosing easier?

Thank you for your help, and I hope you like the map.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...emountains.jpg

[Debaser8]

a) Caves don't cast darkness. I believe you need a mod monster.
b) Check out Edi's database for a list of magic sites, and a bunch of other stuff.

[Squirrelloid]

You aren't really doing yourself any favors building a map specifically to beat the AI (which isn't notably good), especially with a nation as powerful as Nieflheim.

I'm not sure what the 'dual-bless' is, but if it isn't E9N4-6, you're using the wrong bless. Not that you need a bless at all. But Niefl should be a cakewalk against the AI since the AI can't handle SCs.

Anyway, i like the look of the map. The depictions of various terrain are interesting and pleasant to look at.

The structure of the map would not be ideal for MP play. Although I'd worry about various sizes of 'natural' territory more than balanced distribution of province types.

[wilphart]

I suck too much to even consider multi-player. I organize a few powerful armies, take provinces, fortify with province defense & temples, and move on. I raid near fortified borders when I can't afford the PD, and I'll get aggressive when I see an enemy pretender or capital. But I can't seem to survive against the machine unless I heavily guard my borders and stick temples everywhere. Maybe I like bless strategies with capital troops too much. If I didn't always do that, I could make more quick reaction forces all over the map. But my poor strategy is for another thread.

In any case, if all province types should be equally distributed for a fair game, I can do my next map like that. I suppose I should make starting provinces with an equal amount of neighbors, too. I no-started the islands and dead ends, but with a little planning, I can do better than that.

PS: what's the optimal water to land ratio for a MP game?

What

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by wilphart

I suck too much to even consider multi-player. I organize a few powerful armies, take provinces, fortify with province defense & temples, and move on. I raid near fortified borders when I can't afford the PD, and I'll get aggressive when I see an enemy pretender or capital. But I can't seem to survive against the machine unless I heavily guard my borders and stick temples everywhere. Maybe I like bless strategies with capital troops too much. If I didn't always do that, I could make more quick reaction forces all over the map. But my poor strategy is for another thread.

So, Nieflheim's PD is bad, so dont build much. Ideally you build only 1 in any given province - so you get a report on the strength of any attacking enemy.

A few powerful armies is not the correct approach with Nieflheim. Each Niefl Jarl is an army in his own right - accompany with 3-4 Niefl Giants if you think you need the extra muscle. Expand quickly and just walk all over the AI. The AI will throw hordes of troops at your Jarls - which is remarkably ineffective once you throw some gear on them. You'll need to bring actual armies for cracking forts (boulder tossers are good for this).

In any case, if all province types should be equally distributed for a fair game, I can do my next map like that. I suppose I should make starting provinces with an equal amount of neighbors, too. I no-started the islands and dead ends, but with a little planning, I can do better than that.

As i said, i'd worry more about natural territory size than province type balance. Although ideally province types are well-distributed. But having some start areas that contain more provinces than other start areas before you reach chokes on all sides means either some nations will naturally get more territory after expansion than others, or some nations will start with less defensible borders than others (2 nations start inside a natural territory and are basically compelled to fight it out while another nation starts in its own natural territory and has relatively defensible borders with all its neighbors).

PS: what's the optimal water to land ratio for a MP game?

Either very little water (4-6 provinces), or some multiple of near 12-13 if you intend there to be water nations. Many MP games discourage water nations because there are balance issues. (Water nations are hard to attack for land nations, often have trouble being relevant because many of them have problems getting and staying out of the water).

[wilphart]

The strategy you've suggested (and the ones I read) is so alien to the way I've been playing that I can barely wrap my brain around it. And I use that strategy for most nations, really - just tweak the research and troops differently in my powerful armies. I need to unlearn what I have learned. With 1 PD, you wouldn't dare build temples, right? lots of cracks in the earth and Bogus raids and Admiral T and such. I'm used to building PDs that can handle all but a dedicated big enemy army. I usually pick a low dominion score that slowly grows as I increase temples. And my powerful armies are usually limited by my number of level 3 priests (divine bless). But I guess if you had smaller squads, a simple bless would get most of them. But I'll try throwing a couple giants against some indies to see what happens. And keep them there, too, right? Because no PD.

[thejeff]

Different nations play differently. Neifelheim has ridiculously strong cap-only units and very weak PD.

You will need a higher dominion score. I generally only build temples in forts. The dominion score costs more up front in pretender design points, but then leaves you with more cash to buy expensive Neifel Jarls and Giants.

Try the extreme version of a Neifel strategy. Small map, 4-5 opponents. E9N4 bless, Dom 6/7, O3C3 and whatever other scales you need/can get. Start by buying nothing but Neifel Jarls. Send them out solo scripted to Bless, Attack Closest. 1 PD in anything you take. Once you can buy a Jarl a turn, spend the left over cash on Neifel Giants, put them on Guard Commander and send them with the Jarls.
When you start wars, you'll need to link those groups up to fight the big armies, but less than you might expect. And you might need to add others for sieging.
Eventually you'll max out on Giants and have money to build other forts and start research, etc.