request advices on heat armor

[francoisD]

hi,

i am still learning various points in this game

in 1943 as a german player, i am suffering from american infantry and their bazooka.

so i am trying to understand how operate heat armors in this game. i have two questions on this.

1) consider an armored vehicule that does not have any point in heat armor. versus a heat ammunition, is it treated as a zero armor, or do we consider its normal armor?

2) are heat armors worth their costs? because its quite expensive...
a stugIIIg without a heat armor costs 70 pts or so in 1943, but later they have one, but their cost raises to 100 pts or so, that is 50% more...
same for pzIIIL and M...

i could do some tradeoffs and buy better tanks (without heat armor)

what is your experience in regards of this problem? do you have any advice?

consider my game play, i am fighting infantry troops with my troops of the same type, but tanks are usually in the back to support. and, as i said before, i have lost a few tanks in these setup already .

anything is welcome

thanks!

francois

[DRG]

1/ If there are no HEAT armour values any attack with HEAT uses the normal armour values

[francoisD]

ok thanks!

but in this case don't you think the price for a heat armor is not huge?
because a pzIIIl cost 64 pts, and a pzIIIm 93 pts, the only improvement seems to be a side heat armor going from 3 to 10...

same for stuIIIg. in april 1943 they cost 70 pts, in june 1943 100 pts, and again the improvement seems to lie only in the side armor...

same for pzIVj and pzIVj+

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by francoisD

ok thanks!

but in this case don't you think the price for a heat armor is not huge?
because a pzIIIl cost 64 pts, and a pzIIIm 93 pts, the only improvement seems to be a side heat armor going from 3 to 10...

same for stuIIIg. in april 1943 they cost 70 pts, in june 1943 100 pts, and again the improvement seems to lie only in the side armor...

same for pzIVj and pzIVj+

Try counting the special ammo loads - i.e. HVAP and HEAT. Some have more HE - usually a cheaper round than plain AP.

Also, side armour is costed more than frontal armour since there is a far greater area to cover. Either 1.5 or twice the equivalent front or rear, AFAIR.

Andy

[francoisD]

ok i understand.

from your experience, what is better? three tanks with 3 as a side (heat) armor, or 2 tanks with 10 for the side (heat) armor?

because with the points this is roughly what occurs....

(the steel armor being the same)

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by francoisD

ok i understand.

from your experience, what is better? three tanks with 3 as a side (heat) armor, or 2 tanks with 10 for the side (heat) armor?

because with the points this is roughly what occurs....

(the steel armor being the same)

It does not really - you get 2 tanks with double the HVAP ammo as well thrown into the bargain as part of that cost. Some of the later ones have HEAT with pen 9 as well or in replacement of that too. So they can kill a Sherman or T34 if lucky at any range they can hit at. (Better than either AP or HVAP at about 1500-1600m+ - look up the weapon in APCalc).

Bazooka basic HEAT PEN is 10, same as the bazooka plates. If you equal the enemy armour then you are less likely to kill, only 1 overpen a little better, 2 overpen is a better chance to kill etc...

Bazooka can have its WH size added, if it throws lucky dice. Or it could have an accurate hit. But it is a HEAT round and so can under-perform due to fuze failures, even to 0 pen.

So 10 is better than 3, if you have a problem with bazookas (or other HEAT weapons - like AT grenades) from the sides or glancing off the sides when the attempted frontal shot misses.

(Unit #135 looks initially like a good bet in bazooka country (the rollers give a very good HEAT protection) - until you note that it has the usual panzer 4 "glass chin" problem with its weak 5cm turret front )

Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

The added HEAT protection is definitely worth the cost, along with better ammo loads etc.
The front hull is usually well off enough at 8 or so - meaning that if the bazooka is fired at an angle, it gets really short in the teeth. Side armor, OTOH, is much much weaker so the "window" for successful kill with bazooka is much wider - whereas the standoff armor practically eliminates the threat (OK, not eliminates, but severely downgrades).

[francoisD]

one last question

does the heat armor also protects versus other types of ammunition? or only versus heat rounds?

[DRG]

When a sabot or AP round hits a tank the game decided penetration based on the standard armour rating. This also applies to HEAT rounds IF there is no "HEAT" armour.

IF a HEAT shell is fired and IF the target has HEAT armour ratings the game uses the HEAT armour values to decide if there is penetration or not

Don

[francoisD]

thx don,

very clear, and heat armor does not appeal as much as before now. because the strong heat side armor of stugIII (10) drops to 3 versus AP rounds...