Niefelheim Pretender Design Question

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Sombre

It's pretty hard to gather the skellyspam to stop them though, it has to be said. And if you do, it uses up a lot of mages/mage-time. I also think the counters to that skelly spam are easier than the skelly spam itself.

Without specifically advocating skelly-spam as a counter (I meant only to point out a vulnerability): can't you just forge a bunch of skull talismans? At 3 death gems a pop w/ hammer, each one should let you completely neutralize-and-sometimes-kill a giant, even if you only have cap-only D1 mages.

Maybe I just have a zero-enc fetish, but I'd rather be E9N8 than E9N9.

-Max

[thejeff]

Wow, what a long slow battle that would be.

I think you'd need more than 1 each. He'll have someone there to bless them, who'll be able to banish...
The skull talisman bearers will also rack up fatigue, faster than the blessed giants. Some will die to fatigue caused critical, but they still regen.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Wow, what a long slow battle that would be.

I think you'd need more than 1 each. He'll have someone there to bless them, who'll be able to banish...
The skull talisman bearers will also rack up fatigue, faster than the blessed giants. Some will die to fatigue caused critical, but they still regen.

Does Banish have the range to reach the back row? I can't check it right now but obviously you'd have your spammers set way back. I think you're right though that after 20 rounds, the spammers will hit 100 fatigue and will only be able to generate 1 skeleton per 2 rounds. You'd probably want to combine this somehow with a group of bodyguards for the spammers so that when the 20-round limit is hit and the giants finally begin making progress toward the spammers, the giants end up fighting the bodyguards with fatigue 40+ and (hopefully) die.

-Max

[thejeff]

Probably doesn't have the range, but if they're just priests once they've blessed and Sermon of Couraged every one in reach they'll close until they can banish.

If they're Niefel Jarls, you're in a whole different ball game.

Still, I haven't tried it. It might well be more effective than I think.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Probably doesn't have the range, but if they're just priests once they've blessed and Sermon of Couraged every one in reach they'll close until they can banish.

If they're Niefel Jarls, you're in a whole different ball game.

Still, I haven't tried it. It might well be more effective than I think.

I haven't tried the skull talisman version, but I've tried skelly spam in test games against other giant opposition like super-skrattir kitted out with blood thorns, and the skeletons do extremely well after just a few rounds of combat, unless there are normal soldiers mixed in with the skeletons for the skrattir to leach off of.

I've also been on the receiving end. For instance, I've had small groups of elite Enc 0 regenerating sacred giants or Eagle Kings in the indy expansion phase stupidly attack a swamp or hot/cold province (doh!) and take lots of afflictions and/or members killed. There is a huge difference between Enc 0 and Enc 2 IME, and I'm probably one of the few players out there who will willingly pay for Earth10 (e.g. for Ashdod or Caelum, anyone with Enc 5 recruitable thugs).

However, I would not be surprised if it turned out that a 1:1 ratio of skull talisman : giants still resulted in a win for the giants. No way to know for sure without testing.

-Max

[chrispedersen]

Ya, someone out there said X10 was never worthwhile; I was too lazy to respond, but I agree with Max that these were one of the few occasions; e10 is occassionally worth it. B10 with a blood fountain is occassionally worth it..

[Sombre]

B10? What for?