Odd AI Behavior

[DRG]

As Andy noted, the AI will sometimes do a mini counter attack even before you have taken any objectives. That was the intent of the reaction units but something may have gone slightly astray over time as now in a typical assault / defend situation the AI is allowing roughly half of their formations to react on a wide variety of turns. The only way I can know if this has crept up a bit is to run some tests with an older version of the game which I may do this weekend.

However, under normal circumstances these counter attacks are not seen as odd. In the save game you offered the whole situation was radically different than most games with the way you attacked and the visibility in the game. Moderate pointed games on larger maps will have minefields more dispersed than they would be in high pointed games and if a player tends to play those on medium to small maps the incidences of AI tanks running into their own mines would rise so , like many things in this game, what players see and what strikes them as "odd" depends a great deal on their preferences, points and map size

Don

[RERomine]

Another aspect is, being a game, I don't have to stay "honest" so to speak. In reality, if an attack is launched, defensive lines by the assaulting side aren't abandoned as I did in my attack. Beyond the 100x100 battlefield I was on, there would be supply and ammo dumps, hospitals, communications, headquarters, etc. that would have to still be protected. If those things had been back there at in my game, the AI would have had a field day. In the game, I packed up all my "stuff" and took it with me. Also, a narrow front attack isn't typical. Most real assaults are broad based. In the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans didn't punch a hole one mile wide and send everyone through it. It was an assault on an 80 mile front.

Oh well, enough on this. I think it's been pretty much beat to death.

[RERomine]

5. AI clearing it's own obstacles.

Just started an assault and the AI must have a rifle section next to it, because after the pre-turn 1 artillery bombardment, a message popped up saying "rifle section CLEARS 1 STRAND OF WIRE" and showed me the wire at the bottom edge of the map.

This has actually been an issue since the first SP version came out back in the stone ages, but I don't know if anyone has tried to do anything with it.

As a follow-up thought, since the AI tends to target locations with artillery when an obstacle is cleared, will it nail its own troops as a result?

Neither one hurts the player so it doesn't need to be fixed, but I was curious if any attempt has been made to correct this. I have my turn 1 save file and attached a screen print of the message.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by RERomine

5. AI clearing it's own obstacles.

Just started an assault and the AI must have a rifle section next to it, because after the pre-turn 1 artillery bombardment, a message popped up saying "rifle section CLEARS 1 STRAND OF WIRE" and showed me the wire at the bottom edge of the map.

This has actually been an issue since the first SP version came out back in the stone ages, but I don't know if anyone has tried to do anything with it.

As a follow-up thought, since the AI tends to target locations with artillery when an obstacle is cleared, will it nail its own troops as a result?

Neither one hurts the player so it doesn't need to be fixed, but I was curious if any attempt has been made to correct this. I have my turn 1 save file and attached a screen print of the message.

Nope - that one has been there since SP 1 days.

SP 3(?) had a manual flag for engineers to not clear mines, but that is of little use for the AI.

In SP there are just mines or other field defences - there is no ownership marker. So the AI engineers/ordinary troops cannot be coded not to clear "own" mines, since all field engineering items belong to the same pool. Scenario designers can do tricks to give both sides field defences so a "defender does not clear mines" global is not a good idea either, since the defender sometimes does want to clear mines (e.g. to open a lane for a counter attack) or both sides to deal with scatter mines in MBT.

The deployment code is supposed to keep troops clear of engineer obstacles, but has never been able to fully keep it so.

So basically there is no real "sane" way to stop the AI troops clearing mines they are deployed on or in front of, but still clear any they should clear (such as when reacting to a V-hex flip by moving through own minefields).

As to targeting own side - the targeting is done for the opposite side (if AI controlled) to the troops during the clearance phase of the owning player. So that should not happen.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Yes, we all know the AI will clear it's own wire ( and it's own mines, DT's etc etc and "YOUR" wire if you are defending if you put an engineer unit beside one)

As has been stated many times these ( wire, mines. DT's ) have no "friends". They affect and cause damage equally to both sides. One of the "jobs" of an engineer is to clear these obstacles and there is no way to tell them if they "own" the obstacles or not. If we removed the ability to clear mines , DT's wire etc from the defender to clear these obstacles you KNOW someone will howl who "needs" to be able to clear some of them so he can mount a counterattack and we took that ability away.

So yes, this minor little game quirk has been discussed many times and we are all aware of it

Don

[RERomine]

The only reason I mentioned it was I had played the other version by another company who's name I won't mention here and the mine clearing ability for each unit could be toggled on and off.

There are other problems with the version from that unnamed company which is why I play WinSPWW2 instead of it. Overall, WinSPWW2 is a much better product IMHO

[DRG]

Originally Posted by RERomine

The only reason I mentioned it was I had played the other version by another company who's name I won't mention here and the mine clearing ability for each unit could be toggled on and off.

********Which, as Andy noted, is of no use to the AI which was the basis of your observation that the AI was clearing it's own wire.

Originally Posted by RERomine

There are other problems with the version from that unnamed company which is why I play WinSPWW2 instead of it. Overall, WinSPWW2 is a much better product IMHO

********Yeah well, we think so to FWIW. That "version from that unnamed company" is SP3 based and a spin off of SPww2. There were "disagreements" as to the direction the games developement should take and that's why there are now two versions each with different things people like and don't like proving once again it's impossible to make everyone happy. ( especially "wargamers" )

We've been "fixing" the game for 10 years now and people still find things about it they don't like and I have no doubt we could "fix" it for ten more and we'd still be in the same boat we are now.


Don

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by DRG

We've been "fixing" the game for 10 years now and people still find things about it they don't like and I have no doubt we could "fix" it for ten more and we'd still be in the same boat we are now.

Don

I have the benefit in coding in an environment where things are more black and white. If it costs more to leave the problem unfixed than to fix it, we fix it. Otherwise, we live with problem. It's not a matter of making people happy.