Q? on Quasi-Newtonian Propulsion

[Derek]

So, I'm getting back into modding SE4 (You may remember the DavesMods/DereksMods that eventually became part of Devnullicus mods, though I don't seem to get credit anymore... ) and one thing I want to add is Quasi Newtonian Propulsion. Looking over the P&N mod, it seems easy enough; just change the engines required per move from 1 to 3/4/5/6/etc... How exactly does it work? Is there an equations, such as something like (total move pts/engines per move) or something else simple that I am missing?

Thanks

Derek

[geoschmo]

Off topic, because I have no idea how the QNP works. (But I would like to know as well)

quote:

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Originally posted by Derek:
(You may remember the DavesMods/DereksMods that eventually became part of Devnullicus mods, though I don't seem to get credit anymore... )

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Sorry about that. I actually do not remember your mods, but I have heard of them. The first mod I used heavily was the Devnull mod. When Rollo and I resurected that we must not have got all the credit carried over from Devnellicus' original files. If there is something in particular that you should be given credit for by all means let Rollo know so he can update the readme's with the next patch.

Geoschmo

[Suicide Junkie]

The number of "Standard movement" points is divided by the engines per move to get the actual movement (rounded down).

If the ship has at least one standard movement, then any of the "Bonus Movement" is added (not divided by engines per move).

In P&N, I used 1 EnginePerMovement per 50KT of ship size.

One thing to be wary of:
If a ship design is made with more than 255 "Standard Movement" points, then you will get a Range Check Error.
Human players can be expected to realize the problem and remove engines until the RCE goes away (the game will not crash), but you will need to keep an eye on AIs with large ships.

[Derek]

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:


If there is something in particular that you should be given credit for by all means let Rollo know so he can update the readme's with the next patch.

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Just kidding, mostly. Devnull compiled a number of different things for his original mod, as I'm sure you know. My mods were among those compiled; from them, he took (as far as I can remember) External Mount Cap Missiles, Sprint Missiles, most of the additional sizes of ships (including the Ark Ship), Fighter Mount Missiles (though I think his mod doesn't use those anymore), Anti-Fighter Missiles,...


Hmm, I just read through the readme with the latest Devnull mod, and near the bottom, as the first of many, many changes, he lists the following:

quote:

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Derek Mods 1.11 (DavesMods)
-SystemNames.txt, Systemtypes.txt, & Quadranttypes.txt were not modified by me, but by Macondo, but I use them, also.
They add quite a few systems types and quadrant types, along with new names for variety
-TechAreas.txt
-Added 'External Mount Missile Weapons'
-Increased Ship Construction maximum level to 11 from 10 (to fit in all the ship sizes)
-Increased starting level of Applied Intelligence to 1 (I think Intel should have a higher priority/effect in the game)
-Increased Medical Technology maximum level to 6 (to fit in Medical Facilities here instead of in Organics)
-Increased Missile Weapons maximum level to 8 (to make room for Heavy Bombardment Missiles and Anti-Fighter Missiles)
-Added Engineering as a tech area, maximum level 1, rqmt of Repair TL 1 and cost of 50000 (for engineering departments)
-Added Deep Space Mining, to allow for Prospector and Mining Base hulls. Max level 2, cost 10000, prerequisite Construction TL 1
-Vehiclesizes.txt
-Changed Frigate to 250 kT, and changed all the values for it from 200 to 250, also changing the harder to hit mod from 30 to 25
-Added Corvette, at 200 kT, tech level 3, and 7 max engines
-Added Heavy Destroyer, at 350 kT, tech level 4, 6 max engines
-Raised Battle Cruiser tech level to 7
-Added Heavy Cruiser at tech level 6, 700 kT, 5 max engines (on the theory that a heavy cruiser is slower and lower tech than the fast,
lighter, higher tech BC)
-Added Super Dreadnought, tech level 9, 1250 kT, 4 max engines (on the theory that DN's and SD's should stay together in speed)
-Made DN 10% easier to hit in combat, and SD 20% easier to hit in combat
-Changed name of Baseship to Monitor, and made it 30% easier to hit instead of 40%, but increased tech level to 10
-Added Super Monitor, tech level 11, 2000 kT, 1 max engine, and 40% easier to hit
-Added Escort Carrier, Ftr TL 2, SC TL 5, 500 kT, 7 max engines
-Added Ship Construction (SC) at TL 5 for Light Carrier requirement
-Added Ship Construction (SC) at TL 6 for Carrier requirement and changed name to Fleet Carrier
-Changed Heavy Carrier name to Assault Carrier, raised weight to 1300 kT, added SC TL 7 as a requirement, reduced max engines to 3
(keeping with DN's and SD's), and added 10% easier to hit disadvantage
-Added Ark Ship at SC TL 5, 500 kT, as a bigger colony ship
-Added Fast Courier, SC TL 4, Propulsion TL 4, 200 kT, 30% cargo requirement, 8 max engines, no Crew Quarters, only Bridge and
Life Support
-Changed name of Small Fighter to Light Fighter
-Changed name of Medium Fighter to Interceptor
-Changed name of Heavy Fighter to Assault Fighter, and raised TL to 4
-Added Fighter-Bomber at Ftr TL 3, 35 kT, +70 to hit (precision aiming), -40 to get hit, 7 max engines, 2 life support
-Added Heavy Assault Bomber at Ftr TL 5, 50 kT, +70 to hit, -30 to get hit, 5 max engines, 2 life support
-Added Prospector, a 200 kT mining ship, that has 3 engines, Deep Space Mining TL 1 and Ship Construction TL 2, 90% reduction in
maintenance, but -80 offense and defense. Designed for remote mining.
-Added Mining Base, 500kT, 2 engines, DSM TL 2, SC TL 5, same as prospector.
-CompEnhancement.txt
-Added Heavy Fighter Mounts. 1.5 the weight, twice the damage, only used on Fighters 25 kT or larger
-Added High Yield Missiles. 2x weight, 3x damage, but -2 on the range, to account for the instability of the high yield explosive
-Added Spinal Mount. 9x the weight, 15x the damage. -10 to hit because weapon mounted down spine of ship, and must turn ship to fire.
800 kT or larger ship required, because that is Battleship weight (I consider BB, DN, SD, MN & SM to be 'Ships of the Line')
-Changed descriptions of all larger ship mounts to list what ship type or larger they are used on (i.e. Light Cruiser or larger for large mount)
-Changed Massive Ship Mount to 1500 kT minimum (Monitor or larger)
-Added Light Ship Mounts. Half the tonnage, half the damage. 150 kT or larger
-Components.txt
-Added External Mount Capital Missiles. Same stats as equivalent Capital Ship Missile (I-V) but weighs 10 kT as opposed to 50 kT,
but can only fire once in each combat. Family 2053
-Added Heavy Bombardment Missiles (I, II, III) at Capital Missile TL's 4, 6, & 8 These have 18, 19, & 20 maximum range and
do 600 damage at all ranges, weigh 100 kT, and have a seeking speed of 4 (slow) Family 2054
-Added Engineering Department. Weighs 100 kT, acts as an Auxiliary Control, repairs one component per turn, and adds one extra
combat movement. Family 99
-Added Anti Fighter Missile (I, II, III). Weighs 30 kT, does 50 dmg at all ranges (max range 8, 11, 14) Seeker speed 10 (fast), point defense,
targets ftrs/skrs/sats Family 2055
-Added Small Ext Mt Capital Missile (I, II, III) Weighs 10 kT, does 75, 100, 125 dmg at 8/12/16 range, seeker speed 8, targets ships/planets,
mounted on fighters, reload rate of 30 (once per combat) Family 2056
-Changed seeker speed for all Capital Missiles (including external mount) to 6 I hate that some ships can outrun missiles!
-Added Sprint Ship Missiles (I-V) Small warhead, but better ECM and faster. Does half the damage of a Capital Missile, but has seeker
speed of 12 and twice the damage resistance (to reflect better ECM) Tech levels are 1 higher than equivalent CM, everything else is equal.
Family 2057
-Changed mine layers, fighter bays, and satellite launchers as follows. Each one can still only launch/lay 1 of specified item per COMBAT turn,
but can lay/launch 5 per GAME turn. As each game turn is 0.1 years (36 days!) I see no reason why they could only lay/launch one fighter or
mine or satellite in 0.1 years. The combat turn limitation makes sense, but the game turn does not. This might alter game balance, but I think it
makes much more sense.
-Added in Daynarr's anti-proton beam changes. These give APB's slightly more range, and slightly more damage. It makes them more
balanced in my opinion, and since the AI often uses them, makes the AI more challenging.
-Made Shield Regenerator V equal to 20 kT, which is the tonnage of the rest of the Shield Regenerators, instead of 30 kT
-Increased tonnage structure value of small armor to 5 from 3.
-Increased tonnage structure of all regular armors by 10 kT. This makes armor more viable/useful, which goes along with it's increased research
cost as per v1.19 In addition, this has the side effect of making armor piercing weapons more useful
-Facility.txt
-Changed the tech dependence for Medical Labs from Organic Technology 1, 2, 3 to Medical Technology 2, 4, 6

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I guess I spoke too soon.

Hmm, and now things come back around, as I am starting from his base mod set (which you and Rollo have changed/updated) to create my latest mods.

Another thing in the Devnull mod that I never got around to was getting updated AI's, and so his mod was much more useful than mine.

Anyways, thanks for the help.

Derek

[geoschmo]

SJ,

What has me confused is that the engines get 3 move points per engine (Ion Engine, more for higher engines). On the surface this seems to be working against the higher engines per move for each hull size. Can you explain why this is done, how it works together?

Geoschmo

[Derek]

I think I see how it works, now.


For a given ship, add up all the standard movement points from engines. Take this number, and divide it by the 'engines per move' for that hull size. This gives you the final movement of the ship.

For larger ships, the 'engines per move' is greater; from what SJ says, the 'engines per move' is set (for P&N) to be the hull size divided by 50 kt.

Not all that bad, and I think I will go with it.

SJ: do you have any hull sizes that don't divide evenly by 50, and if so, how did you round?

Derek