The mysteries of multiple shapes modded monsters

[Twan]

I was going to post this in the bug thread (it's in relation with a previous message in it), but as I think this kind of grey areas can only interest crazy modders, and also that Edi risks to commit suicide if he tries to resume my post for the list.... I post it here.

(in the attached files, I've modded monster 602 appearing in all pretender lists - it's the white centaur called "avatar of obad-hai" ; each file is explained in mod description)

Here a report of my experimentations with multiple shapes monsters (pretenders in this case, but the same units called as normal monsters in a map file work the same) :

... First thing I discovered trying to mod a prismatic sphere (the mage uses shapechange to activate the sphere, then a secondshape is used for each color) : Using a succession of secondshapes for a shapechanged monster is bugged if you make the last form able to shapechange to the first (A-B-C-D-E-A), the monster A will shapechange directly to E instead of B, all intermediate shapes will never appear. See the message #568638.

... The same thing happens for a cycle of shapechanges (A - shapechange B - shapechange C - shapechange D - shapechange A), so it's no longer* possible to create a shape changing unit having more than one other shape and able to change to the one it wants in one turn (like the Jotun Werewolf**, =unit A -> shapechange B -> shapechange C (...) -> shapechange A). If you use a cycle of transformations the first and last shapes become the only ones availables.
I think it may be a side effect of the (ultra useless except if there is a code utility I can't know) "shapeshange order now affect the two creatures" change some patchs ago ; note that unlike what modding.pdf and this patch note may make believe, #shapechange still not usually gives an automatic shapechange order to the second unit (yes in some rare cases no in most common ones ?!***) ; but makes a shapechange command for it not working except...
- if it's a shapechange to the first form, or
- if the change is definitive (unit A -> shapechange B -> shapechange C -> shapechange D works as long as the unit D can't shapechange to form A again ; if the last unit has a #shapechange A all intermediate shapes will be lost.

* iirc multiple shapes modded units worked fine around the end of dom2 / beginning of dom 3 era

** the Jotun Werewolf still works properly, so it's only a mod issue

*** see example in attached mods shapechangebug 1 & 2 ; the shapechange command seem to work as described in modding.pdf only if there are 3 or more units in the shapechange chain (very strange behavior isn't it ?) so to resume....
- "shapechangebug 1" : unit A (shapechange command) -> unit B (with no shapechange command) = unit B gets no shapechange order
- "shapechangebug 2" : unit A (shapechange command) -> unit B -> unit C -> unit D (with no shapechange command) = unit D gets free shapechange order ( to C)
- (and reminder) unit A -> unit B -> unit C -> unit D -> unit A = unit A shapechange become a direct shapechange to D, unit D shapechange doesnt change

... There is a workaround to allow the use of a transformation cycle : using firstshape A instead of shapechange for the last unit (the last monster will take the form A after one turn and be then able to shapechange to intermediate units).

But this workaround also encounters the bug (depend of which units are used, and I find no logic for why it works or not). See an example in attached mods itworks.dm and notworking.dm , same units in the middle of the shapechanges chain, different order, one works as expected the other not.

If someone understand how it works....

--

ps : another strange thing, monster 2134 (second form of 602) appears in the list of pretenders of all nations even if I remove the pathcost command for it (if I remove it, the cost of magic for pretender 602 become 10)

pps : I may have missed something about how it should work,

ppss : or my mod may trigger strange bugs for other reasons (didn't find errors in my code but...)

[DrPraetorious]

So it's no longer possible to *mod* a Skratti?

Because I've got skratti cycling through all three shapes just fine...?

[Twan]

Yes I can't get modded units working like a skratti, but the skratti works fine.

Has someone made/tested a mod with multiple shapes units in version 3.10 ?

[Edi]

Interesting. I'll distill this into a proper shortlist entry later.

Monster 602 has certain attributes that only appear on pretenders, namely pathcost and startdom. You probably need to get rid of both attributes to remove it from the pretender list. If the first shape of a shapechanged unit has god attributes, then so does the second one, which is hwy it probably appears in the pretender list.

Shapechanging creatures have a number of potential issues when made pretenders. One of those for example is the cost mismatch bug, where choosing the shapechanging pretender means that the point cost is calculated on the basis of the other shape that is not shown (which is why some gods did not work earlier as intended, e.g. the Dracolich, see early shortlist entries).

[Twan]

Exact, I had copied startdom too on the second unit, making him pretender.

But in fact, it's still strange, in the part of Greyhawk mod I'm writing I have two pretenders with other shapes.

The first, the prismatic mage has a cycle of 5 secondshapes but none of these units show up as pretenders choices (even if they all had patchcost and startdom cut-pasted with other base stats of the mage).

The second, obad hai, uses shapechange, and if I give pathcost or startdom to one his shapes, this last unit is available as a pretender.

There are really strange things with pretenders with multiple shapes.

[Sombre]

Edit: My bad, I misunderstood.

So are you using #restrictedgod at all?

[Twan]

In the version released just after Edi made me realise why the halfling form was pretender, I use restrictedgod to be sure the shapes other than the first don't appear as pretenders choices, but the two pretenders (prismatic mage and obad-hai are not restricted).

In the version before I add restrictedgod the shape 2 of Obad-hai appeared as pretender, but not the many shapes of prismatic mage out of the first (even with #patchcost and #startdom on them).

ps : the secondshapes of prismatic mage and the halfling form of obad-hai appear as pretenders if a game with EA arcocephale is started with Greyhawk mod (as I've used restrictedgod 1).