Possible bug with lifedrain attacks? - developers please read

[Gandalf Parker]

Hmmm if the code checked to see if the weapon hit then treated both effects as a hit or not hit based on that, how would that affect other weapons? Are all such weapons in that Category or are there some where the effects need to be checked seperately?

[PvK]

Seems pretty clear that there should be several categories, e.g.:

* Doesn't need to hit: wall of fire, gas cloud, heat/cold aura

* Needs to hit, but primary attack doesn't need to penetrate: astral weapon, electrocution, mage bane, elf bane

* Needs to hit, and needs to penetrate:
blood poison, venom, bane blade

What exactly each effect's requirements are is largely up to interpretation, though. The one that seems clearest to me though is venom versus armor - one should really need to get through external armor before causing poisoning, it seems to me.

PvK

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:


Fatigue for free sounds suspiciously buglike.

That's what I thought. And it is confirmed behaviour, since all three of us - me, Norfleet and Zen, have seen it with mirror-imaged targets.


As for Zen's comments about possibiluty of lifedrain attak draining fatique witout penetrating target's protection - it is possible, of course but I think there is more than that.

My Air Queen for example, with 9 mirrorimages and high defense rating, was hit for fatique 2 times per turn, with every swing of Icedevil's sword. Even if she was drained because she was hit but her armor was not penetrated every time (which was quite unlikely in that case) the icedivel had to hit the one correct image out of 9 once or twice _every_ turn. It is possible but very unlikely statisically.

I think lifedrain attack could be buged twice in fact: first beacuse it is draining fatique despite dealing no damage, contrarery to the above quote by developres, and secondary because it ignores mirrorimages alltogether, always striking "correct" image.


In fact today my fully equpied Odin was attacked by AQ with wraithsword. Despite casting 7 mirror images authomatically he was instantly fatique-drained to 100+, because AQ was hiting him every or almost every singly time that she striked, withough inflicting any hitpoint damage or breaking mirrorimage. (and he was +4 defense on top of his defense boosting gear due to water 9, in addition to having 7 mirrorimages due to air3)

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
(and he was +4 defense on top of his defense boosting gear due to water 9, in addition to having 7 mirrorimages due to air3)

Water magic does not grant a secondary bonus of +defense. That's only the water BLESSING, and you cannot bless your pretender.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
(and he was +4 defense on top of his defense boosting gear due to water 9, in addition to having 7 mirrorimages due to air3)

Water magic does not grant a secondary bonus of +defense. That's only the water BLESSING, and you cannot bless your pretender.

---

Ooops, you are right of course, I was confused.

However my point is that my AllFather had defense over 25 with his gear and had 7 mirrorimages, so how could Air Queen with wraithsword hit him once or twice every turn? (she was wearing quickness armor). Same with my Air queen when she was attacked by lifedraiing ID, except that being Air4 she had 9 mirrorimages, don't remeber her defense.

See what I mean?

[ May 14, 2004, 04:21: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Norfleet]

Were you being attacked by other enemies as well? Being attacked by multiple enemies reduces your effective defense in ways that aren't displayed and I don't recall. Were any other fatigue-inducing effects present on the battlefield, such as heat auras, cold auras, or flying lightning bolts?

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Were you being attacked by other enemies as well? Being attacked by multiple enemies reduces your effective defense in ways that aren't displayed and I don't recall. Were any other fatigue-inducing effects present on the battlefield, such as heat auras, cold auras, or flying lightning bolts?

Norfleet, I am not newbie.

Both times it was one on one battle. No auras, and I was monitoring units before and after every sword hit for fatique. The only explanations to this is either what I suggested (2nd lifedrain-related bug with mirror images) or that both times I was very unlucky.


In any case, if the above quote from developers is true and that is how lifedrain is supposed to work (fixed percentage from damage inflicted), than all lifedrain type attacks in game are currently broken, there can be no doubts about it - your own observations as well as mine confirm it.

The only question if this is broken in 1 or 2 ways.


EDIT: As for formula for the reduced defense, IIRC each additional attacker reduces effective defense by one.

[ May 14, 2004, 04:58: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Kristoffer O]

PvK: There are different categories. Poison only affects those wounded, while flames might affect the target regardless of a hit. I'm not sure which attacks are this way, but there are some.


I'm starting to believe that the mirror image is the problem and not the life drain (poison and wraith sword affecting units).

It is quite possible that after a hit (with effects) the mirror has a chance of removing the damage. Fatigue and poison not affected.

Have you experienced the same effects with poison and (nonmagic weapons) and ethereal or is it only the mirror image that is a problem?

[PvK]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
PvK: There are different categories. Poison only affects those wounded, while flames might affect the target regardless of a hit. I'm not sure which attacks are this way, but there are some.
...

Cool. That's what I figured, but thanks for the confirmation.

PvK

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
I'm starting to believe that the mirror image is the problem and not the life drain (poison and wraith sword affecting units).

It is quite possible that after a hit (with effects) the mirror has a chance of removing the damage. Fatigue and poison not affected.

Have you experienced the same effects with poison and (nonmagic weapons) and ethereal or is it only the mirror image that is a problem? [/QB]

I see. Yes, it is indeed possible as well just as you siad - if you have in your code check for the morror image _after_ damage/fatique calculations.


It's funny, because if this is so, than being protected by mirror image may as well be currently worse than not being protected by it, when you under attack by life-draining weapon, depending where you have check for target's protection. It feels alsmot as if your immages are draining the life from you by themself...


Another possible thing to consider while you would be looking in it in the code is to check how mirrorimage works with mistform. According to the "fixed percentage" formula that I assume to be a "correct one", since you didn't object to it , while target is protected by mistform and/or mirror image the worst thing that could happen is -1 or even zero fatique drain/gain (depending which way you round down the numbers), unless mistform is broken. But I am reasonably sure that it wasn't broken on that Air Queen, since Ice Devil wielding Hell sword wasn't actully hiting her the first place. Therefore if mirrorimage indeed accidently removes the damage but not fatique, as you suggested, it may do it without taking mistform into account, and therefore assigning a "full" damage instead of just 1 hitpoint as it should with mirrorimage spell. Just a programmer's guess, since I don't have your code in front of me.

Unfortunately I can not give you much info about poison or astral weapons with mirrorimages - I am much more often attacked by lifestealing weapons than by poison ones in my MP games.