Do Small DUCs suck?

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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And I also observed a higher hit rate than indicated (in my experience something about 10% effective hit rate when 1% is displayed).

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Q, that's because its a 1% chance for each weapon on the fighter group!

with 5 fighters, and 3 weapons each, 15 guns @ 1% give you a:
(0.99) ^ 15 chance of missing,
or: a 86% chance of missing with all = 14% chance to hit with any one gun.

2 weapons per fighter would give you roughly 10% chance to hit with a group of 5.

When you hit with just one or two guns, the damage should be lower than the total of all the weapon's damage Ratings. ie. 5 to 10 damage (1 or 2 hits) instead of all the weapons (15x5=75 damage)

If your fighters had 100 guns between them, at 1% each, you get a 63% chance of at least one hitting. (out of 100!!!)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 17 May 2001).]

[Nethog]

suicide_junkie, what about the +50% to hit offenseive bonus and -80% defensive bonus for small fighters, i.e. net -30% to hit? This would make the hit chance even lower still? Or does the 1% already reflect this?

Anyway, regardless of the numbers don't you think that the hit chance should be higher when two equal sized Groups of small fighters are engaged in combat? Like I said earlier in this discussion thread it gets tedious fighting a battle between small fighters.

[Phoenix-D]

Nitram, I was going to suggest that myself, but is has a flaw.

The AI will put a LOT of cockpits on the fighter. Not bound by the "one per ship" restrictions, rememeber..

Phoenix-D

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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Suicide_junkie, what about the +50% to hit offenseive bonus and -80% defensive bonus for small fighters, i.e. net -30% to hit? This would make the hit chance even lower still? Or does the 1% already reflect this?

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The uneven fighter bonuses force the minimum 1% to hit.
This applies to all the weapons on the stack of fighters, but they fire seperately. So, it rolls a 100 sided-dice. if it comes up one, the first fighter's first DUC hits. roll again for the first fighters decond DUC, and so on.
So, with 15 fighter weapons, you get 15 rolls to win the one-in-a-hundred chance of hitting. If any one of the stack's weapons hit, then the animation shows a hit, while doing one weapon's damage.

[Nitram Draw]

I think the only way to find out how fighters work is to remove all bonuses from the fighter and sample target ship and start observing the hit % of different size Groups.
If fighter weapons work like standard weapons then the lowest to hit for 1 fighter with 1 DUC will be 90% at range 2 and 99% at range 1.
Then start adding fighter to the group and adding bonuses.
There is definately something different about fighters.

[TaeraRepublic]

Back to original topic:

Cannot say a lot about DUCs, as i prefer the organic stuff. I never even reach the DUC/S. DUC III as i immidiately go on beams, and shortly after that to the organic tech, and then plasma, parasites & electricy effectively replaces any other weapons.

Belive me, small Electricy gun is much more powerful than the S.DUCs...i think..maybe its just because i like Organic tech very much

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Emperor Klis't of the Taera Republic.
Proud member of the League of Empires.

E-Mail -
Ora Planet - Taera Republic - League of Empires

[This message has been edited by TaeraRepublic (edited 17 May 2001).]

[Q]

quote:

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Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
When you hit with just one or two guns, the damage should be lower than the total of all the weapon's damage Ratings. ie. 5 to 10 damage (1 or 2 hits) instead of all the weapons (15x5=75 damage)

If your fighters had 100 guns between them, at 1% each, you get a 63% chance of at least one hitting. (out of 100!!!)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 17 May 2001).]

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I made a test with two Groups of 100 fighters each, 2 small telekinetic projectors per large fighter.
The displayed hit chance for each group on the other was again 1%. However first shot was a hit and destroyed 52 fighters of the other group. So the damage made was 5000kT or the complete fire power of the fighter group. As I continued the fight I had the impression the the effective hit chance is really correlated to the fighter group size or the number of weapons as you suggested. However the damage made is definitely the damage of all weapons in the group together.

This adds even more the the bug effect, because the larger fighter Groups are harder to hit, have themselves a higher chance to hit and make more damage per hit!


[This message has been edited by Q (edited 17 May 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

Maybe the ability won't stack if it is attached to a component.
I did a little test of it Last night and got more variety in the "to hit" numbers, both for the fighters to hit and a ship to hit fighters. I did not see an increase in the "to hit" if the fighter Groups were different sizes. I didn't do a thorough test but maybe I can this weekend, or someone else can sooner.
I think it will work as a short term solution.

[Marty Ward]

The way fighters are now is really screwed up. The offense plus and defense plus of each fighter in the group stacks. Worse one additional multiple is added to every stack. A group of 10 small fighters has 880% defense plus benefit and a 550% offense plus benefit. No wonder nothing can hit a large group of fighters except PD. Even the same size Groups of fighters can't hit each other.
Fighters can be sort of fixed by giving the cockpit the bonus normally applied to the fighter hull. This makes it tough to differentiate between fighter sizes but it beats the alternative, fighters always having a 99% weapons to hit, and eliminates the benefit of large fighter Groups over small fighter Groups in fighter to fighter combat.
Fortunately you can only add one cockpit. If you try to add more you get a warning.
I guess if you were really dedicated you could try to create a small, medium and large cockpit but I don't know if that can be done.

[jc173]

You could make different cockpits, but the AI is always going to use the one with the best bonus so I guess it's kinda moot. The AI seems to be able to break all kinds of rules. In my most recent game I've seen space yard ships with two space yard modules. I tried using the restriction one component per ship for the cybernetic interfaces that give offensive and defensive combat bonuses in my mods and the AI still adds two.