Can't Kamikaze!

dogscoff · #1 April 30th, 2001, 10:36 AM

I am having some trouble with my latest ship design:
A destroyer with
max engines
bridge etc
2x PDC
Fill up the rest with organic armour

I'm using strategic combat so I set the combat strategy to "Kamikaze" and tried it in the combat simulator.
This design beats just about anything else on the map. (it's early in the game) However, some ships with the propulsion racial trait (like me) manage to keep out of range, so I added a tractor beam to bring them in.

My ship now refuses to ram anything. It just lies up to it and fires the tractor beam at them.
I've tried everything I can think of in the strategy screens but nothing works. Why won't my ship ram anything any more?

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but we'll never get a monkey to use dental floss!"

jc173 · #2 April 30th, 2001, 12:35 PM

The AI is notoriously poor at dealing with the Kamikaze and Capture Ship/Planets strategies. What sometimes helps is to edit the default strategy so that the primary one is point blank and the secondary is board ships/kamikaze. Doesn't always work though. This is probably the biggest reason I finally gave up on strategic combat and went back to tactical.

Nitram Draw · #3 May 1st, 2001, 01:01 AM

Did it work before you added the tractor beam?

dogscoff · #4 May 1st, 2001, 01:35 AM

It worked fine without the tractor beam. Once the game sees a "weapon" though it decides that my strategy is stupid and refuses to ram anything.

I tried all kinds of strategy settings and nothing worked. I also tried redesigning the ship to have the components in different orders. No joy.

I'm playing simultaneous so I hav to use strategic. It's really frustrating, I just know that with a tractor beam and a working strategy this would be a really fun ship to use.

Maybe I could put the tractor beams on a support ship and have them in close formation - but I think that would be just as difficult to achieve

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but we'll never get a monkey to use dental floss!"

Matryx · #5 May 1st, 2001, 01:41 AM

I had this problem as well... the only thing I could even remotely think of was "engine damaging weapons" on another ship (close formation)

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DM Matryx
Author of Dominatio Cosmicum

Nitram Draw · #6 May 1st, 2001, 01:43 AM

Are they attack ships?
I had problems with my PD ships staying in formation until I added a weapon. Plus I had called them a defense ship.
It's wierd how certain components seem to affect the strategy. It would seem to me that the strategy should override all other factors when determining how the ship acts.
Maybe you can find the cure in the formation or strategy files. I never look at them cause I don't have a clue how they work.

DirectorTsaarx · #7 May 1st, 2001, 08:31 PM

You can edit strategies by selecting the Strategy window from Empire Status (I think). Once there, one of the options allows you to set which ships break formation. The default setting is to have ships "without weapons" break formation. Unfortunately, Point-Defense Cannon are NOT considered weapons, and therefore a ship loaded with PDC will always break formation. That may also explain why the ramming attack worked when the ship had no weapons; it broke formation from the fleet, and was free to pursue its own strategy. When a tractor beam was added, it was treated like other "armed" ships and was forced to follow the fleet strategy (which I assume was NOT kamikaze...).

dogscoff · #8 May 2nd, 2001, 09:19 AM

Thought of that - I set it so that _all_ ships broke formation. I also tried the ship in the simulator with no fleet - all on it's own. Thanks anyway. I guess I'll just have to have the same boring ships as evryone else. *sigh*

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but we'll never get a monkey to use dental floss!"

dumbluck · #9 May 12th, 2001, 09:39 AM

So, what you are saying is that if I want my PD ships to stay in formation and, you know, provide point defense for the other ships, I will have to put some kind of weapon on it?

(hmmmm... maybe that repulsor beam will finally be used now....)

That seems kind of silly. Has anyone suggested to MM that PD _should_ be considered as weapons for this reason? Or could that simply be modded? (i'll leave the modding to all you experts for now)