More newbie questions....

[HJ]

Hi all.
For some reason, I only found out about Dom I a week ago, and I'm still trying to figure out some basics. I have two sets of questions (for now ), if you don't mind:

1) If some unit has more than one weapon, e.g. a lance, a mace and a hoof, does it use all of them in the same turn, that is, attacks three times? And if so, is it the same thing as multiple attacks with the same weapon, that being - all of them are targeted at the same unit, and that unit gets a -1 def with each subsequent attack? Or does the thing with -1 def only apply to attacks for various units, not multiple attacks from the same one? And which weapon's length is taken into account for checking whether it can repell an attacker, only the longest one, or can it repell multiple times?

2) What does the fear/awe morale check mean exactly? If a unit causes -4 fear, does that mean that the attacker makes a morale check with +4 bonus? Why does the scale start with -4 anyway, instead of 0? Do those failed morale checks just count as failed morale checks for the squad level, or can units that get frightened rout individually? And how is morale check done in the first place (something with the dice, I assume, but the manual doesn't explain how)? Is there a direct effect of fatigue on morale? And, if I'm not mistaken, morale is not dynamically updated for each unit during the battle, since it only matters for the morale checks, while the actual morale that causes rout is dependent on the number of units, not their respective morale, right?

I guess I am slightly obsessed with numbers in games. Hopefully, the Dom 2 manual will provide more of those for people like me.

And it's such a shame I found this game only recently. I could have been playing it for years now...

Thanks for the replies.

[Pocus]

Originally posted by HJ:
Hi all.
For some reason, I only found out about Dom I a week ago, and I'm still trying to figure out some basics. I have two sets of questions (for now ), if you don't mind:

1) If some unit has more than one weapon, e.g. a lance, a mace and a hoof, does it use all of them in the same turn, that is, attacks three times?

yes

And if so, is it the same thing as multiple attacks with the same weapon, that being - all of them are targeted at the same unit,

no, you are allowed to hit several units, but all in the same square.

and that unit gets a -1 def with each subsequent attack? Or does the thing with -1 def only apply to attacks for various units, not multiple attacks from the same one?

-1 for each attack, whatever the source (confidence 90% only)

And which weapon's length is taken into account for checking whether it can repell an attacker, only the longest one, or can it repell multiple times?

the longuest (confidence 80%)

2) What does the fear/awe morale check mean exactly? If a unit causes -4 fear, does that mean that the attacker makes a morale check with +4 bonus?

yes. Awe is checked before attack, if the unit fail, he wont attack this round. Awe +5 is really potent : perhaps 75% of morale 10 unit wont dare attack you.

Why does the scale start with -4 anyway, instead of 0?

because each magic death level give you +1 fear, starting at -5 . So to balance the effect, and not have it too potent, you start to cause fear, but with a bonus to morale.

Do those failed morale checks just count as failed morale checks for the squad level, or can units that get frightened rout individually?

you rout in squad.

And how is morale check done in the first place (something with the dice, I assume, but the manual doesn't explain how)?

I think it is two dices open ended, but I'm notthat sure. Perhaps that only one dice. Each wounded or killed in a group give malus to the check. I once saw one of my group of 10 heavy infantry rout because one was *wounded* by a single barbarian chief. Thats talk about critical morale failure!

Is there a direct effect of fatigue on morale?

none I'm aware off (90% confident)

And, if I'm not mistaken, morale is not dynamically updated for each unit during the battle, since it only matters for the morale checks, while the actual morale that causes rout is dependent on the number of units, not their respective morale, right?

there is strength in number. What I dont know is if figure can have a state of routed/unrouted, overriden after by the group morale, or if everybody pass a single morale check, modified by number of figures in the group and losses taken. I think this is the later.

I guess I am slightly obsessed with numbers in games. Hopefully, the Dom 2 manual will provide more of those for people like me.

in fact no... dominions is so vast that even a big manual would not give more 5% of its mechanisms. You will have either to discuss with others, or to find them yourself. This is one of the joy of the game.

And it's such a shame I found this game only recently. I could have been playing it for years now...

you will play it for years

Thanks for the replies.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

1) If some unit has more than one weapon, e.g. a lance, a mace and a hoof, does it use all of them in the same turn, that is, attacks three times?

Yes. Unless every available targets is eliminated before all attacks are "consumed", OFC.

And if so, is it the same thing as multiple attacks with the same weapon, that being - all of them are targeted at the same unit,

Actually it's "targeted at the same tile".

and that unit gets a -1 def with each subsequent attack? Or does the thing with -1 def only apply to attacks for various units, not multiple attacks from the same one?

Don't know.

And which weapon's length is taken into account for checking whether it can repell an attacker, only the longest one, or can it repell multiple times?

My guess is the longest weapon is always used, and it can repel multiple times.

2) What does the fear/awe morale check mean exactly? If a unit causes -4 fear, does that mean that the attacker makes a morale check with +4 bonus?

Nope, a unit causing -4 fear will rout enemies easier than an unit without a fear aura.

Why does the scale start with -4 anyway, instead of 0?

Actually it starts at -5 (causes lesser fear) or at 0 (causes fear), with +1 for each death/unholy level. I think it starts at -5 for historical reasons: the "causes lesser fear" ability appeared on death mages and unholy priests in a patch, while the "causes fear" ability existed since the initial release of Doms 1.

Do those failed morale checks just count as failed morale checks for the squad level, or can units that get frightened rout individually?

The former. Units (except leaders) never rout individually. A squad may rout after some of its units turned berserk, though, giving the illusion that its units display independent behaviour.

And how is morale check done in the first place (something with the dice, I assume, but the manual doesn't explain how)?

I'd like to know.

Is there a direct effect of fatigue on morale?

Possible, but I don't think so.

And, if I'm not mistaken, morale is not dynamically updated for each unit during the battle,

I think it is dynamically updated for each unit (or else the 'Frighten' spell would be irrelevant), but a squad's morale is checked only at the start of its own round, averaging the *current* morale of all its units. It appears to be a rather complex computation, as the squad's current size, and its casualty % both seem to count.

since it only matters for the morale checks, while the actual morale that causes rout is dependent on the number of units, not their respective morale, right?

Well, evidence says the "morale" of a squad is based on its size, and on the average morale of its units.

[HJ]

Thanks for the replies. I've been dilligently playing for the Last couple of days, and I'm starting to figure things out now.

I once saw one of my group of 10 heavy infantry rout because one was *wounded* by a single barbarian chief. Thats talk about critical morale failure!

Yes, I noticed this as well. I think that the random dices are a bit too liberal, since the difference of having 10 def or 11 def matters little when there is a 2d6 to add to that. I know this is so that all units have a chance to hurt some tough guys, but it makes units far too similar in capability to each other, and the number of soldiers is the only thing that counts pretty much. This detracts from the individual flavour of the units, and it's also something why I didn't like AoW - too much randomness make units too similar in what they can do.

in fact no... dominions is so vast that even a big manual would not give more 5% of its mechanisms. You will have either to discuss with others, or to find them yourself. This is one of the joy of the game.

Well, I usually appreciate the game more when I know the intricate mechanics of it. Otherwise, it's more like a frustration than a mystery feeling I get when playing, and I just see the sets of numbers and attributes that don't make any sense. I would prefer to have a manual compenduum that would explain formulas and similar things, than the spell manual which is useless since all the spell descriptions are already listed in the game.

That's why, and also because of the lack of any semblance of control over what's happening on the battlefield, I'm still kinda deciding on this one right now, after the inital awe I had when I saw the diversity of features.

[HJ]

Oh, and I have another question. I seem to have noticed that the battle replays don't always happen in the same way. Is that supposed to be that way? I mean, I watched the same replay, and the pretender didn't get killed, although the message stated that it did, and then when I saw it again it did, then the third time around it survived again. Huh? How am I supposed to know which one to trust with reagrd to afflictions, kills, etc.?

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by HJ:
Oh, and I have another question. I seem to have noticed that the battle replays don't always happen in the same way. Is that supposed to be that way? I mean, I watched the same replay, and the pretender didn't get killed, although the message stated that it did, and then when I saw it again it did, then the third time around it survived again. Huh? How am I supposed to know which one to trust with reagrd to afflictions, kills, etc.?

It is not supposed to be that way, what Version of the demo are you using? Is it in multi or single player?

[ October 02, 2003, 21:35: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[HJ]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
It is not supposed to be that way, what Version of the demo are you using? Is it in multi or single player?

I am using demo 1.15 Version of Dominions I. It was in single player. I was fighting the Ctissan Sphynx, my first combat against the pretender. I got the message from Ctis that I killed their god after the message about the battle, but when I watched the replay, the Sphynx survived the assault. It had about 600hp left of the initial 1300+, it had a curse and all sorts of afflictions, but my armies were routed by a watchtower before they managed to take her out. The battle message said that I failed to take the province, and at the same time it said that the enemy commander was killed. I watched the replay again, and it got killed. Then, the third time was similar to the first one, although I think it got far fewer afflictions this time around. In any case, the fort was still under siege, I didn't take it as far as the overall map goes, so I stormed the castle again, and took it without resistance - the Sphynx wasn't there.

[LordArioch]

I know it certainly happens if you play a turn with a user added unit and then edit the unit stats, go back, and watch the replay again, but I didn't know it could change with standard units.