who shoots first? - Page 2

Cyrien · #11 April 18th, 2003, 04:43 AM

Quote:

I see what you are saying, but it still seems weird to me for the fleet coming through the warp point to be able to be organized and open fire immediately while the fleet that already came through the warp point is sitting around trying to figure out what they are doing.

I consider it a state of mind type thing. If it is all happening on the same turn and one just warped through and the other follows right behind seems like a pursuit type setting to me. In that case it isn't too far fetched to consider that the defender may be a little paniced and disorganized while the pursuer is more set for the attack.

I guess it is just a matter of how you percieve the setting.

Lord Chane · #12 April 20th, 2003, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyrien:
I like that bug actually. It makes sense to me in a Sim turn game. It should take a little bit of time to setup a defense position. So get there in the same turn and no fire first defender.

But that's just me.

But if I understand the game correctly, each turn encompasses a 30 day timeframe. So, assuming that the two fleets moved at the same speed and one only had to move three to get there and the other had to move six to get there, then the first fleet would have been there for two weeks before the other fleet arrived. Certainly that'd be enough time to setup a defense position. If not, then the commander of the fleet needs to be sacked and a more competent commander found!

[ April 20, 2003, 22:17: Message edited by: Lord Chane ]

Slynky · #13 April 20th, 2003, 11:20 PM

While this game outshines MOO and MOO 2 (as good as they were), I like the way it was handled there a bit. Each ship was rated for its ability to react and engage in combat. So, ships on different sides moved at different rates with the slower ones moving Last. Slow not necessarily depending just on enjines.

Cyrien · #14 April 21st, 2003, 01:08 AM

Quote:

But if I understand the game correctly, each turn encompasses a 30 day timeframe. So, assuming that the two fleets moved at the same speed and one only had to move three to get there and the other had to move six to get there, then the first fleet would have been there for two weeks before the other fleet arrived. Certainly that'd be enough time to setup a defense position. If not, then the commander of the fleet needs to be sacked and a more competent commander found!

And here we come upon a fundamental flaw in the system. Engines don't have speed. Is a Quantum Engine faster than an Ion Engine? Following the 30 days per turn model then the answer is... No. Both engines move exactly one sector each day and have the same speed. The Quantum engine just can run for longer so while the Ion engine needs to stop and cool down after moving for 6 days the quantum engine can continue on for several more days.

Thus while in truth a fleet with faster and better engines should be able to overcome the defenders and beat them to the warp point. Yet in this case they both move 3 spaces in 3 turns. Now all things being equal then what you say is true. But in SE4 all things aren't equal and I like to view this defense at Warp Points as one way to equalize things a little more to overcome the speed thing.

Personally I would like to see a system that divides moves into the time. Thus a ship with a movement of 6 would move 6 spaces in 30 days at the rate of 1 space every 5 days instead of 1 space for the first 6 days and then not at all. A ship with a movement of 10 would move 1 space every 3 turns and etc.

Well... I certainly went off the main subject... heh

Suicide Junkie · #15 April 21st, 2003, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Personally I would like to see a system that divides moves into the time. Thus a ship with a movement of 6 would move 6 spaces in 30 days at the rate of 1 space every 5 days instead of 1 space for the first 6 days and then not at all. A ship with a movement of 10 would move 1 space every 3 turns and etc.

What?

A ship with 10 movement does move every three days.
If you tell it to move only 5 spaces during one turn, it will move on days 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15. then sit and wait.

Cyrien · #16 April 21st, 2003, 01:34 AM

Excellent. You learn something new everyday.

So strike my comment.

tbontob · #17 May 5th, 2003, 08:58 PM

It gets wierder.

Did some testing.

I had the enemy sit on the other side of the WP.

My ships were faster 13 vs 12.

On the next turn, my ships shot first.

Tested this a number of times and my ships always shot first.

Messed around and added some 12 movement ships to the fleet.

They shot first.

Went back to 13 movement ships and they shot first.

I suspect the defendor normally shoots first when sitting on the WP, but a random element sometimes gives the aggressor the right to shoot first when they are faster.