Preventing Domino Surrender? - Page 2

Drake · #11 February 18th, 2001, 08:16 AM

quote:
Raynor said:
Any ideas why the Sergetti would require a greater than 10x score?

The Sergetti and the Amon'krie have their politics file set so that they will only surrender if you have 50x their score instead of 10x.

geoschmo · #12 February 19th, 2001, 07:53 PM

quote:
A large component of the domino surrender is the ease with which you can 'blockade' the AI homeworld.

My question about blockading is, if they only have one planet, and you blockade it, why do they immediately lose all of their resource production?

I can understand that if you blockade other colonies not being able to get the resources to the homeworld, but so what if you blockade their homeworld. All of the resources and space yards are right there together. Shouldn't they be able to use them.

After a few turns of being blockaded their population happiness should drop to the point they are rioting and then production should stop, but not immediately.

Can they not build any ships because the accountant can't get to the galactic bank and back?

IMHO, blockading the Homeworld should have no effect on resource production, only on happiness.

As it is now you can conquer the ai about as fast as you can get from one end of the quadrant to the other.

Nyx · #13 February 19th, 2001, 08:54 PM

Well, I think that blockading ought to be a bit more detailed than it currently is. Blockade running would be a joke if there was only one ship in orbit of the whole planet. Especially if it was a slow ship with no weapons. A blockade should be a percentage penalty based on the size, speed, and firepower of the orbiting fleet. And I agree, if a race has only one planet a blockade should do nothing at all.

As for shipyards, if the planet with a shipyard is blockaded, why can the shipyard draw on empire-wide resource storage and harvesting to construct ships? Shouldn't a blockaded world be limited to using only its own resources for construction?

But the biggest problem is that the score is calculated in a rather poor manner, so the AI thinks it's way weaker than it really is, and rolls over and plays dead too fast.

It also doesn't defend itself very well. I don't think you should be able to sail up to a homeworld and blockade it without the AI putting up a decent fight. Maybe giving out fighters as a starting tech.

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Drake · #14 February 19th, 2001, 09:07 PM

You guys have made some good points on the current problem, which could be alleviated by fixing any one of the following areas.

1. Blockading a planet when an empire only has that planet shouldn't have any affect on its production.

2. AI should fight better in tactical combat, or build missile ships earlier, or both. Basically, you shouldn't be able to take out a frigate and escort with just an escort with one missile weapon.

3. Have a local reservoir of resources to draw off on during the blockade based on production at the planet - when the bloackade is removed, the total should be added to the global total.

(whoops, more later, back to work)

SunDevil · #15 February 20th, 2001, 05:48 PM

My mod fixes this, so it makes it a lot harder for an ai race to surrender. You can also set in the ai_politics file, whether the race surrenders by the true/false line, and also the score line underneath.

By the default values, the whole ai_politics file is pretty generic and has a lot of problems.

I will continue to update my mod, but I would appreciate it if, some of you guys could try it and tell me what you think. Thanks.

geoschmo · #16 February 20th, 2001, 10:05 PM

I have decided I don't think making the ai use missle ships will help eliminate this problem. I can still beat any ai with equal CSM tech level by simply timing my shots right.

A better solution would be to go back to the way SEIII made you research to get CSMI. If it was not a default tech then I wouldn't be able to use it so early. No matter how good I am I am going to take damage in a DUC to DUC combat. Sometimes will even lose if the ships are equal.

This would allow the ai some time to build up more colonies and or research CSM and PD weapons. At the very least he could build more ships. Then when I do come at him with CSM's he won't crumble to the weight of my mighty CSMI single escort blockade fleet.

raynor · #17 February 20th, 2001, 10:17 PM

When you blockaded the AI homeworlds, how many battles did you end up fighting with your CSM1 equipped escorts?

I only fought, perhaps, two battles. The rest of the time, I moved my ship into orbit around homeworlds with NO ships defending. If I had to go up against the planetary defenses, I would surely have lost. But by simply pressing 'End turn' thirty times in a row, Voila! I was blockading their planet.

So, I don't think it would matter if everyone had to first research missiles before they could use them or not, I think the root problem is that you shouldn't be allowed to blockade the planet until you've won a battle in that sector--i.e. defeat the planetary defences.

geoschmo · #18 February 20th, 2001, 10:32 PM

I wasn't saing that making CSM a non-default tech would eliminate the problem, only that making the ai use CSM would not help.

Usually I had faced at least one ship on the way to their homeworld. If it were DUC to DUC and I were damaged or destroyed before getting to blockade them it would be a moot point.

I don't think anything we do short of eliminating surrender completely is going to help the races unlucky enough to start out right next to me. But if we make things more difficult at the start, just slow me down some, the races on the other side of the quadrant should be able to build up economically enough to give me a challange.

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 20 February 2001).]

Drake · #19 February 20th, 2001, 10:50 PM

Increasing their use of CSM early AND making them smarter in tactical would help somewhat. There's just no way I should be able to take out a frigate and an escort with just an escort and not take a hit.

I'd also like to see the AI ram with non-combat ships when they can't get out of range of the attacker's weaponry, and the attacker is a smaller ship. I do this all the time when it attacks my colony ships with an escort. The odds aren't good, but they're better than sitting in the corner and doing nothing.

Well, the patch info mentions some improvement in tactical combat for the AI. I'll be interested in seeing if the fix resolves some of the issues we're having.