Cluster Munitions - Capable to destroy tank?

EnemyAce · #1 March 27th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Can those darn munitions be so deadly so they can take out t-72?

Msta-B section wiped three of my t-72s with one or two cluster munition explosion. I wondered are they really so lethal that they can penetrate t-72 armor?

Marcello · #2 March 27th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Cluster munitions are lethal weapons, yes. The penetration of a single bomblet isn't impressive by normal standards, around 10-11cm IIRC. However they are released in mid air and will land on a tank from the above. The top turret armor of the typical T-XX is around 4 cm, meaning that it will easily penetrate . Even if the top armor was reinforced (either with ERA bricks or passive armor) the engine deck is still vulnerable, so the tank can still get immobilized.

mr_clark · #3 March 28th, 2007, 06:17 AM

Besides there is also Multi Effect Cluster ammo, featuring larger shaped-charge warheads which will easily penetrate a modern tank's top armor.

EnemyAce · #4 March 29th, 2007, 03:48 PM

I guess I just have to face it, though I still wonder how 155mm artillery ammo rarely is capable to destroy a tank in this game, but cluster munition can do even from a larger area.

pdoktar · #5 March 30th, 2007, 08:31 AM

Because as said, cluster munitions attack the top of the tank where its HEAT or Dual-Purpose HEAT warhead will have enough power to penetrate that thin armor. Also the tank is usually struck by several munitions, thus increasing the chance to inflict critical damage to the vehicle or crew.

Opinions are varied, but generally a 155mm HE shell will not certainly destroy a MBT. It will give it a serious shock and disable systems, but the chance of a direct hit is extremely small. So the idea of those cluster munitions is to increase or even assure the chance of a hit in a given area for a single shell carrying those cluster munitions.

PlasmaKrab · #6 March 30th, 2007, 10:16 AM

Also remember that to be "destroyed" in game terms, a tank or other AFV doesn't have to be a flaming wreck. Given the short duration of scenarios, "destroyed" tanks can belong to the category that can be towed to the rear area to be patched up in a matter of hours or days. There are many ways to totally disable a tank on the battlefield, not all permanent, and they are the ones used in the game.

Marcello · #7 March 31st, 2007, 09:34 AM

"Opinions are varied, but generally a 155mm HE shell will not certainly destroy a MBT"

I remember and anedocte about a T-55 which was destroyed by a plunging artillery HE shell somewhere in Africa. Considered that a typical 155mm shell weighs around 43Kg and that the top armor is just 4cm it does not seem unlikely. Still as it requires a direct hit it would be a pretty rare occurence. A cluster artillery round on the other hand might carry more than sixty bomblets, each of which would be bad news for a tank.

EnemyAce · #8 April 2nd, 2007, 01:33 PM

But in this game, even marked hit from 155 HE doesn't destroy a tank but cluster munition does. Now I start to wonder that how this is possible because I don't believe that cluster munition is more powerful munition than 155 HE?

thatguy96 · #9 April 2nd, 2007, 02:08 PM

is it a direct hit? A "hit" in game doesn't necessarily mean a direct hit. I would think that a 155mm shell coming down in a hex would consistantly get shrapnel hits on a tank, but these hits would not be severe enough to destroy the vehicle or even cause it to become immobilized.

PlasmaKrab · #10 April 2nd, 2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Now I start to wonder that how this is possible because I don't believe that cluster munition is more powerful munition than 155 HE?

Yes, it is, if you consider that anti-vehicle submunitions are shaped charges and therefore penetrate more armor than blunt PIBD HE shells.

Also they have more chances of hitting a tank because of the sheer number of submunitions per shell. I know that arty shells can be placed quite accurately in good conditions, but in game terms, you still have one shell in 2500m� (one hex), while the same one round can contain 50-60 bomblets (from the top of my head), that gives 50m� per bomblet.
Given the average top-view surface of a tank is roughly 3x7m so 20m�, you have about 2 chances in 5 that a tank will take a top hit that will penetrate its roof armor. And as I wrote previously, a "kill" in game terms is a very loose definition, say a weapons and motor kill or the crew being knocked unconscious is a kill.
So with a good margin, you have one chance in 3 that a DPICM round will "kill" a tank if it hits the right hex. Now I have no idea how much surface a 155mm cluster round will cover, but I have heard that they are designed to endure a spread pattern of at least 1 bomblet per tank-equivalent surface.
Much headache for not much result, I know