STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:

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Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
I would like to see the Federation ships gain a little more weight. By that I mean once I develop the Frigate I will put them into production, but with only a 50 ton increase to the destroyer I will keep researching until I get the Light Cruiser. It may just be my design philosophy but I don’t get a big enough improvement (I play against the AI) from the Destroyer to warrant the cost and time of building and fielding them.

At one point I was going to put together a list showing what it cost various races to get to a certain ship size. Mostly for my own use to see which race has the best and cheapest ships. Maybe I'll finish it. I think (emphasis on think) that some races have an big advantage when it comes to ships sizes and when they can use mounts but its not really clear which they are and how much of an advantage it is.

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All races have the same cost say for the Borg, they cost more.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
All races have the same cost say for the Borg, they cost more.

Well yea but the size of the ships they can get for that cost is quite different.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
All races have the same cost say for the Borg, they cost more.

Well yea but the size of the ships they can get for that cost is quite different.

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Ahhh, good point. This would be helpful to me as well. But please keep in mind what Kwok had originally planned for the mod as far as ship sizes go.

[Lighthorse]

Hey Atrocities,

Did you ever finish that excel file for rating each of the Star Trek races I send you? I had it all the special items for each race list on it. I needed you to enter the values you thought were right for each item. The excel then would had total each race, thus you could compair them.

Lighthorse


[ January 11, 2004, 06:55: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[Atrocities]

I am sorry Lighthorse I did not. To be honest, I simply could not figure it out how to continue it as the format, although logical I am sure, escaped me.

This is not your fault as the document is a brillant idea, it is my fault for being so dumb.

I also got busy on the Tech Trees that I never got back to your work. I apologize, as that was rude of me.

[Atrocities]

Well now, for those who wanted to know, and those who didn�t can still read it, here is how our TCI/IP Game went.

The game had three players, User X, the Host, Captain Kwok, and my self.

We all met up on MSN chat at around 5:30 and UserX posted the game settings and his IP address.

I attempted to join, and was given two IP�s to select from. I figure this was because I am on dial up and using Earth Link. I chose the IP I was using on this computer, and was able to join the game upon entering the Hosts IP. Shortly thereafter I was given the option to create my Empire. It was not long after this that we encountered our first problem. The Host reported a Stream error and we have to reset the game and attempt to join once more.

Our second, third and fourth tries also failed for some reason. The Host, UserX then re-booted his connection and we tried again this time with success.

We were all able to submit our empire files and the first turn was set into play.

After the first turn was played I clicked finish turn and was returned to the Chat window. However, my turn was never received by the Host. We elected to have the Host, UserX, process the turn to see what would happen. We were guessing that perhaps the turn was received.

I discovered upon playing Turn 2 that the Ai had ran my turn. I simply processed the turn without making any changes.

Again UserX did not receive my player files and we again opted to process the turn to see what would happen. The turn was processed and I again checked to see if any orders had been completed. The Ai�s orders had been completed. I processed my turn and was returned to the chat window where I reported success to the Host.

Upon trying to run Turn 3 the Host ran into a steam error. At this point we decided to call it quits and try the game on PBW. We had no idea what was causing the problem at this point, but we soon discovered what might have been the culprit.

As we set up the PBW game we discovered that one of the players files was not matching the host game. We trouble shooted the problem and continued the game.

It is my belief that the TCI/IP game would have worked had we all had the same files. This will have to be confirmed by a second attempt later on.


Bug / Glitch
1. Chat log did not automatically advance downward as new comments were added. After a bit it did begin to function correctly. Not sure what caused the hang up, but thought it important to mention.

Suggestions for TCI/IP based upon my experience with it.

1. It would be nice if the chat log was saved somewhere for later reference.
2. The QUIT GAME button needs to be moved. It is in a very dangerous place.
3. A RESEND turn option would be nice
4. A CONFIRMATION that the Host has successfully received all turns would be nice for all players to see.
5. An error log would also be very helpful in isolating the cause of game failures.
6. The addition of one on one chat would be nice. This way two empires can communicate privately while waiting for turn files.

All in all it was a great attempt and I want to thank UserX for Hosting the game, and Captain Kwok for being there to play. Thank you both very much.

[DavidG]

Well the numbers are in! Best ships for the cost: 8472, Worst: Federation.

and just to clarify: I sure these differences are intentional. I hope noone uses this chart to whine about making the Federation ships better. Use it to decide which race to pick based on your sytle of play. I still think the Feds are the best race although I have only played a few games.



Better image here: StarTrekShipGraph

And by far the best way to view it since you can show only the races you want. (this requires Autodesk DWF viewer plugin)
trekshipgraph-Model.dwf

[ January 11, 2004, 14:48: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[Atrocities]

Awsome work David G. Thanks man this is a big help.

I should point out that the Federation also has more ships to research than the other races, and 8472 has the fewest.

[ January 11, 2004, 15:28: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Atrocities]

Ok I have gone through and compared the ships size for each race. They are going to stay the same as they are now. The sizes, say for some minor tweaking with the Federation, are well balanced for each races.

NOTE: Each race has special weapons mounts. Some races currently have better mounts than other races to make up for having few ship classes.

Eventually there will be a few more mounts added for a couple of races to give the players some choice in how to best arm their ships.

Please also keep in mind that some races ships cost less in resources than others, and there is always room for improvement here.

The cost of researching the Federation ships is extreme from the looks of things. However the Federation should be getting a research bonus through its Facilities to compensate for this. I will look into this and adjust as needed.

[Atrocities]

After trying to play a game via TCI/IP we opted to go with PBW.

I set up the game at PBW under the name AUK (Atrocities, UserX, Kwok) and we all joined.
After a bit of a �Files Not Matching� error we were off and running with our game.

A Medium FQM D map, 5k racial points each, no Intel, and 3 starting planets.

Each of us have Role Played our empires quite well actually mimicking the feel and essence of a Star Trek. User X paying as the Federation has been quietly, and peacefully expanding his empire and research base. The Romulan�s, controlled by Captain Kwok, have been boxed into a corner and are determined to be left alone while I, the Klingons, have been aggressively building up my forces and have attacked the Romulan�s and several occasions.

Without a doubt this game has been one of the finest I have played as it has played more like a true Star Trek game than any I have played since Multilayer BOTF. The game is fun and feels good to play.

By the end of the night, 1:30 am for us and something like 4:30 for CK, we called it quits. We managed to make 49 turns in about 6 six hours.

The first part of the game was manual turn process because I forgot to include the game PW into the game set up. Geoschmo came to the rescue and reset the password for us and from that point the turns were entirely automatic with Last player upload. Thanks again Geoschmo for the help.

Below is our player log for most of the game. We had to reset MSN a couple of times so the log is not complete from start to finish. It has been edited to just include the game info. Enjoy.

MSN Chat Log for AUK game at PBW (Game ran continues with new turn every few minutes from 6:30 PM 1-10-04 PST until 1:30 AM 1-11-04 PST.
Players: Atrocities, Captain Kwok, and UserX

Luke has been added to the conversation.
[email protected] says:
2:30 his time
Atrocities says:
He is 3 hours ahead I think,
Luke says:
1.39
[email protected] says:
ah
Luke says:
Those Klingons are sure running a risky economy.
Luke says:
Let's hope the Praxis doesn't explode.
[email protected] says:
they are becoming dependent on Federation trade
Atrocities says:
LOL
[email protected] says:
damn, this would be so cool with 10+ people (and all on MSN)
Luke says:
Unfortunately, Romulan space seemed a bit more void than the other regions and habitable planets are far in between.
[email protected] says:
same here
Luke says:
10 would be hard to arrange, but 5 would not.
Atrocities says:
I think a neutral map by a non player balanced for game play is best
[email protected] says:
that would be cool
Atrocities says:
We have been at this going 6 hours now.
[email protected] says:
2 of those we were trying to get things going
[email protected] says:
this is actually working really well
Atrocities says:
Me think the Romulan�s are running scared now.
Luke says:
I'll go until turn 40.
[email protected] says:
ok
Atrocities says:
Sounds Good CK
Atrocities says:
Damn the turn files are taking some time now
[email protected] says:
Ok, diplomacy through the back channels. Atrocities, you must listen to the Federation President... he's very serious.
Atrocities says:
So is Chancellor Atrocities. He has many more planets to come on line.
Luke says:
You must have took a lot of points and put it to maintenance AT.
[email protected] says:
The President was under the impression that there was an agreement on were we could settle ... our borders have been determained
Atrocities says:
The system we now mutually control is as far as we are prepared to allow you into Klingon Territory.
[email protected] says:
We were not under the impression that it was mutually controled?
Atrocities says:
It is now.
Atrocities says:
Your colonies are to close to our homeworld thus we must maintain a presense in this system to ensure no hostile intentions are spawned there.
[email protected] says:
It will be difficult to explain this to the President ... and the Fleet commander on his way there charged with protecting Federation interest
Atrocities says:
If you deploy a fleet to that system then there will be war.
[email protected] says:
"maintain a presense" that's how you described it. did you not?
Atrocities says:
Not a military presence. Any war ship that enters that system will provoke us into war.
[email protected] says:
The Romualns who are listening in must be loving this!
Atrocities says:
Unlike your human Hitler, we can fight a war on two fronts rather easily.
Atrocities says:
The romulan spies are everywhere.
Atrocities says:
Look for a message from us via subspace
Luke says:
The Klingons have a launched a major attack into Romulan space.
[email protected] says:
The Federation is well prepared as well for war... while we don' maintain a large fleet, we do have the resources and facilities to produce a large military capability in a very short time
Atrocities says:
We have not, we are on an explority mission to expand our empire. We need breathing room.
Atrocities says:
You have no teeth little cat
Atrocities says:
war is a bloody buisness and we do have three fully armed fleets.
Atrocities says:
With reserves
[email protected] says:
well, the President was convinced that there is room for deplomacy... our fleet will not enter the contested system... for now
Luke says:
You see the Klingons are aggressive and will stop at nothing. While we may protect our borders, we do not try and expand them at the costs of other life.
Atrocities says:
Ah Romulan lies. It was they who attacked us, and it was they who expanded into Klingon space. We let them have the system and what do they do, they attack us again.
Atrocities says:
Federation we have dispatched our peace onvy to your HW. We hope an accord can be reached.
Atrocities says:
Romulan, you have a choice to consider.
[email protected] says:
I think we can come to an arrangement that will benefit both peoples
Atrocities says:
Excellent
Atrocities says:
Romulan�s, you know those funny little ships you had??
Atrocities says:
The ones that like to lay mines?
Atrocities says:
Well we must ask that you not use them any more. They are creating dangerous conditions for our peace envoy
Luke says:
Then stop attacking our colonies.
Atrocities says:
We have offered you a Peaceful option, you keep refusing it.
Luke says:
Oh, did all your ships die?
Luke says:
Perhaps it was a good day to die!
Atrocities says:
They were to be scrapped at any expense.
Atrocities says:
We have new Battleship coming on line this turn.
Atrocities says:
The choice is yours as to weather or not they are deployed?
Atrocities says:
Allow us to establish the colony and the neutral zone and the rest of the planets are yours in that system.
[email protected] says:
Battleships? hummm
Atrocities says:
Yes, Battleships.
Luke says:
I'm sure.
Atrocities says:
Klingons are warriors, not butchers. Peace has been offered, if you do no wish it, then we are fully prepared to offer you death.
Atrocities says:
Either way, we did extend the olive branch Romulan
Luke says:
If the Klingons want peace - then they must leave the system to us.
Atrocities says:
So be it.
Atrocities says:
If it matters so much to the Romulan�s to have such a system as that then so be it. But the systems beyond are Klingon.
Luke says:
That is the way it must be. For the Romulan�s colonized that system long before the Klingons had explorer that region.
Luke says:
We did not wish for war - just to be left alone.
Atrocities says:
Our records were in error. The mistake was ours. We have compensation for you, but it will take a month or two to arrive. We will offer it next turn.
Luke says:
The Klingon's lust for blood will leave them despised and unwelcome by the other races.
Atrocities says:
We merely want a "Buffer Zone"
Atrocities says:
The Federation is expanding beyond control, The Romulans are boxed in, and the Empire has no options but to establish relations with both races in order to move foward in peace rather than backwards in war.
Atrocities says:
(Kinda like the way they had it play out in the shows.)
[email protected] says:
But we've expanded through peaceful relations no war
[email protected] says:
guys, I should call it a night soon
Atrocities says:
That�s cool, so should I.
Atrocities says:
This has been one the most enjoyable games I have played in a while. Thanks againn guys.
[email protected] says:
[email protected] says:
this was the funest game I'
[email protected] says:
have had
Luke says:
Oh, how about 15more min.
[email protected] says:
ok
[email protected] says:
say 1 or 2 turns?
Luke says:
ok.
Luke says:
this turn and next and that's it.
[email protected] says:
ok
Atrocities says:
nite
Atrocities says:
ok
[email protected] says: