Discrepant / Irregular data when clicking on units in-battle, or hidden flags?

tinkthank · #1 June 28th, 2004, 05:07 PM

I had been wanting to check out exactly how much bonuses and penalties to e.g. precision and protection etc. units receive when "storm" or "wind guide" or "mass protection" is cast, and found some disturbing results.

For instance, my Caelian army under the influence of a Staff of Storms had a 9-precision penalty -- one could see "Basic Precision: 12, Experience Bonus: +2, Current Precision: 5". I became confused when I clicked on their Indy opponents in the same battle at the same time; I got "Basic Precision 10, Experience Bonus +2, Current Precision 7" -- but that is only a Storm penalty of -5. What can explain that?

Having become suspicious, I started clicking often around the battlefield in various contexts, and often find (for me: unexplainable) differences in statistic values. Are these generally hidden flags (e.g.: the unit in question is under the influence of something whose explicit existence is not flagged?), or errors? This ranges from discrepancies between "basic" and "current" (e.g. Basic Defense: 10, Frozen: -3, Current Defense: 11) which I guess come from holding a particular weapon or shield or something to those bizarre precision differences.

Thanks for your help

PvK · #2 June 28th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Well there are many factors, so it's hard to say. Your precision one sounds wrong. Defense and Encumbrance however are usually affected by equipment and mountedness, but have always added up when I made sure I was taking everything into account. Protection invoves a curve when combining intrinsic and external armor, and so can look odd but I've also never seen it be wrong.

PvK

Cainehill · #3 June 28th, 2004, 06:05 PM

I've noticed anomalies with Precision myself.

In a game with Vanheim, I created Tempest, and send a bunch of Van-ish lightning bolt casters out. One was my prophet, with loads of experience, and Heroic Precision - nominally about precision 25-30, I don't remember exactly.

But when I clicked on the commanders, I saw huge precision penalties on mine. The enemy archers and such like had precision penalties as well - but nowhere near as bad as mine : less than half as bad, IIRC.

Personally I found this rather troubling; it took a while for me to determine that Tempest was generating a storm, but it still should have applied the same precision penalties to the enemies as to my army.

Secondarily, I was bothered a bit that a Storm would hammer precision for lightning bolt casters. Seems like lightning would be just as effective in a storm, whereas physical missiles would be much less effective.

Hmmm. In retrospect, I'm wondering if Storm does something like reducing Precision by 1/2. This would probably explain the varying amounts of lost precision.... Albeit I think I recall that it doesn't reduce the Precision gained from experience -- it probably shouldn't reduce Precision gained from Air magic either, imo.

HJ · #4 June 28th, 2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Hmmm. In retrospect, I'm wondering if Storm does something like reducing Precision by 1/2. This would probably explain the varying amounts of lost precision.... Albeit I think I recall that it doesn't reduce the Precision gained from experience -- it probably shouldn't reduce Precision gained from Air magic either, imo.

I think that this is indeed how it should work. But I don't understand how the Caelians can have a precision of 5 then?

Inigo Montoya · #5 June 28th, 2004, 08:32 PM

Is it possible Mist was cast?

This would explain the results --> Base precision of 12 + 2 for exp = 14 Normal.

Storm decreases base precision by 50%.

Mist decreases base precision by another 50%, so base precision is only 25% of 12 = 3.

3 + 2 for exp = 5.

EDIT: Spelling error.

[ June 28, 2004, 19:33: Message edited by: Inigo Montoya ]

tinkthank · #6 June 28th, 2004, 09:10 PM

As far as I can tell, Mist was not cast.

In fact, Cainhill seems to be reporting exactly what I have found to be the case with my troops: MY storms seem to affect my troops to a more severe (i.e.: bad for me) degree than enemy troops.

Norfleet · #7 June 28th, 2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Secondarily, I was bothered a bit that a Storm would hammer precision for lightning bolt casters. Seems like lightning would be just as effective in a storm, whereas physical missiles would be much less effective.

Well, physical missiles have a 50% chance of failing to reach their target, period. It's still hard to see when it's raining in your face, though.

tinkthank · #8 June 29th, 2004, 12:01 PM

Actually, could this be the answer to the Storm discrepancy? -->

Storm does not lower a fixed amount of precision, but rather a percentage? Thus units with very high precision will have more lost during a storm, no matter who casts it?

(Or: not?)

PvK · #9 June 29th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Yes, that's what was suggested. However your specific example said that your troops went 14->5, and theirs went 12->7, which is off either way. If it was 14->7 and 12->6, that would be 50%. Double-check the exact numbers?

PvK

Endoperez · #10 June 29th, 2004, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
Is it possible Mist was cast?

This would explain the results --> Base precision of 12 + 2 for exp = 14 Normal.

Storm decreases base precision by 50%.

Mist decreases base precision by another 50%, so base precision is only 25% of 12 = 3.

3 + 2 for exp = 5.

EDIT: Spelling error.

Or could Storm just reduce Perception by 75 percents, to 25% of the original? Then your math would work. I think.