P&N Supply issue and other questions

[Tnarg]

So the P&N mod is as I am noticing quite different from any other mod.

1. I am a regular race in a P&N mod PBW game and have a home planet that has no resupply base, nor can I build one. I kind of figure that I need to build a space supply base with a solar reactor perhaps. Correct me if I am wrong.

2. All of my ships seem to be running around cloaked at the beginning of the game with out any research in this field. Is it supposed to be like this?

3. Any other tips and tricks about this mod would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I am playing a completely different game than SEIV, which is great.

4. In the past I noticed that I could never run this game as a single player vs. computer. Is this still the case?

Thanks.

[Fyron]

You are playing the PBW only Version, which is very bad for AIs. In it, supplies are a limited resource, so there are no resupply bases.

2. Yes. Ships have "gravitic" cloaking that protects them from gravitic sensors based on their mass. Smaller ships are harder to detect. Any other type of sensor (including the built in level 1 passive EM scanner ability that every ship has by default) will see the ships. The cloaking types have been separated into different types. Again, this will greatly harm the AI, and is for MP use only.

4. If you get a non-PBW only Version of the mod, the AI works well.

[Tnarg]

So how does one go about resupplying ships?

[Fyron]

Build "bases" (which are actually ships with 0 engines in the PBW Version) with Solar Reactors or whatever they are. Build ships with Solar Collectors. Build ships with tons of supply bays, then scrap once they are empty. I am sure there are a few other ways, but these are most of them.

[Suicide Junkie]

4)
It sounds like you are playing one of the PBW, humans-only Versions.
If you want to play against AIs, then pick a Version without the "PBW" tag.

1)
Yep. Build a supply base, or a ship with solar panels & supply storage. Transport hulls are good for this since supply tanks count towards the cargo requirement.
And, as Fyron said, you can also build supply tankers. Since ships start with full supplies upon construction, it is possible to use them to resupply your fleets. All in all, it is a very expensive way to get supplies, though, and uses up one of your build queues.

2)
They aren't cloaked, per se, but they do have a gravitic cloaking ability built in due to their low masses.
The gravitic sensor are rated on how small a mass they can detect. The level 3 gravitic scanner for example is rated about 250kt. It will thus see a destroyer, but not a frigate.

3)
There are plenty of tips and trick scattered throughout the "A pirate's life for me" thread.
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...3;t=001696;p=1

Some major things you should know about:
- Normals are the easiest civ type, everything is reasonably close to "normal"
Nomads are next, with maintenance free ships, you can build up big fleets fairly easily.
Pirates are the most different from regular SE4. You will only be able to support a handful of ships, most of which will be the small "civilian" ships. Loot and plunder your way to fame.

- Quasi-Newtonian Propulsion:
Speed is thrust (# engines) divided by mass of the ship.
This means a big ship requires the same percentage of space to be devoted to engines in order to reach the same speed as a small ship.
Overall, this reduces the value of big ships, but they still have dome advantages over small ships, including mounts, and survivability. (Enough damage to destroy one of two LC's (400kt each) will only deplete the shields on a BB (800kt), for example)

- Resource use:
Resources have a balanced usage in P&N, with increased use of organics for items with any biological basis, and radioactives being used to represent power requirements.
You may need to scrap some mineral miners and switch them to radioactives extractors in the early game.
In the later game, you will likely find your new high tech gadgets require ever more power to run, and radioactives will become slightly more important than minerals.

- Shields and Armor:
armor gets stronger than shields. It is much harder to repair at high levels, but for sheer hitpoints in single combat, it will do very well. Shields, of course, regenerate, and block some special weapons. Find the right balance for the situation.
Also, be sure to use the quality mounts to maximize your return on investment.
Premium quality Plasma Projection Armor V's get 21! hitpoints per kt IIRC.
Also, consider how much Buckytube Gel armor would be best... it takes up no space, so compare build time and maintenance to the expected increase in survival time.

- Racial Techs:
There are crossover racial techs for all of the 6 major techs.
Each pair of techs will yield a special bonus tech when researched together.
The sixth major racial tech is "Gravitic Manipulation", and provides faster missiles, better engines, and a number of unique weapons such as the planet-based, very powerful, Graviton Flux Cannon.
In addition, there are quite a few minor racial techs, including "tiny race", "advanced automation", "Pack rats", etc. Cheap to purchase, they provide some small bonus effects to all your ships.
Negative-cost traits are also available, if you care to take a penalty in order to have more racial points available to spend. Do not underestimate their effects!

- Weapons have been rebalanced:
APBs are weaker, Torpedoes have to-hit bonuses to make up for lack of damage, Graviton hellbores are armor-skipping weapons.
That sort of thing. Do some comparison shopping, and realize that every weapon should have a niche use where it is better than the other weapons in a particular situation.

- Offensive vs Defensive weapons.
Most pronounced in the PBW Versions, you will find that matter-based ammo-using weapons will quickly suck your supplies dry. They are typically extremely cheap to maintain, however.
Energy weapons use little to no supplies, on the other hand, but cost horrendous amounts of radioactives to power them.
Since supply chains are important to attacking forces, energy weapons will be most useful there, while the defenders can sit near the resupply points and use the cheap and effective matter weapons to great effect.

- Stellar Manipulation:
SM components are vastly more difficult to utilize, as their size has been increased greatly.
An SM barge will be slow and weakly defended, and also extremely expensive. Battlemoons are likely the best platforms for SM components, since they will at least be able to defend themselves...

[ July 13, 2003, 00:58: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
2. Yes. Ships have "gravitic" cloaking that protects them from gravitic sensors based on their mass. Smaller ships are harder to detect.

Say... do you have to order your ships to "cloak" when the grav cloaking is built into the hull? "Sir, we're going to weigh 300 kT now!"

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:APBs are weaker, Torpedoes have to-hit bonuses to make up for lack of damage, Graviton hellbores are armor-skipping weapons.

Weaker??? Sure, they cost tons of rads, but as long as the target doesn't have shields, they do twice the already impressive damage they do in the regular game! Just imagine what would happen if you paired them with shield depleters! (And in P&N PBW, shields come at level 2 of Physics, not level 1, so they're not as ubiquitous as you might think! )

Also, consider how much Buckytube Gel armor would be best... it takes up no space, so compare build time and maintenance to the expected increase in survival time.

Hint: Does wonders for units!

[PvK]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
2. Yes. Ships have "gravitic" cloaking that protects them from gravitic sensors based on their mass. Smaller ships are harder to detect.

Say... do you have to order your ships to "cloak" when the grav cloaking is built into the hull? "Sir, we're going to weigh 300 kT now!"
...

---

Yes you do, but you don't have to imagine it in a silly way. If you un-cloak, then your ship is seeking combat, and the active sensors required to find and intercept enemy ships withing the very large amount of space represented by a system sector, would reasonably be detectable at range. Think of cloaking as "silent running" compared to aggressive running.

PvK

[Ed Kolis]

Well, at least I'll know to cloak all my population transports in Horrible Doom... those things are vital since your colonies start out so underpopulated while your homeworld is just bursting at the seams with colonists... maybe in SE5 there could be unrest if your worlds become overpopulated???

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, your ships will be seen by everybody unless you at minimum, put some scattering armor or a cloaking device on, to block the default level 1 active scans.

[Fyron]

Is it active or passive scanning you get by default?