Newbie Question: Neutal Races

ckotchey · #1 August 16th, 2002, 08:24 PM

Ok, maybe I just overlooked it somewhere, but...

What exactly is a "neutral race" that I keep seeing mentioned in these postings? Are they in some way different than other computer-controlled races? I see that there is a separate "neutral races" folder in the game installation, along with a "generic race" folder. So what is this "generic race" in comparison to a "neutral race" compared to a just-plain-old "race"?

I've also noticed in some of my single-player games, there are some races that never go through wormholes - are they somehow related?

overminder · #2 August 16th, 2002, 08:42 PM

I believe that Neutal empires will not expand past their own solar system. It's easy to consider them monir powers.

Arkcon · #3 August 16th, 2002, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ckotchey:
Ok, maybe I just overlooked it somewhere, but...

What exactly is a "neutral race" that I keep seeing mentioned in these postings? Are they in some way different than other computer-controlled races? I see that there is a separate "neutral races" folder in the game installation, along with a "generic race" folder. So what is this "generic race" in comparison to a "neutral race" compared to a just-plain-old "race"?

I've also noticed in some of my single-player games, there are some races that never go through wormholes - are they somehow related?

Yeah, you'll recognize the neutral race by their ships. The all use the same generic ship set -- and it is generic, just a dull silvery gray streamlined shape. Their description may also give you a hint about their plans to stay put.

But they're like any other AI -- they get angry at you because you were born, because you built ships and colonies in places they'd never go anyway, and if they can't reach you -- there's always intelligence projects

Most people think that they are way too easy for the average player to steamroll over. In a way, war with them is kinda cheezy. Drop troops on one of their domed worlds and they're an easy source of a race that breathes a different atmosphere. You can trade colonization tech with them easily. And like all races, the start with a homeworld. Capture two neutral homeworlds and you've got a lot of resources and production for your real wars.

I try to role play at least a little bit. Genocide just seems wrong to me. If only I could force them to accept subugation or protectorate -- but you have to beat them to submission first, and them get them to like you

[ August 17, 2002, 12:30: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

tbontob · #4 August 17th, 2002, 01:24 AM

Yes, I think the AI is kinda lacking in that regard.

In real life, a weaker nation usually adjusts itself to the stronger nation...especially if it is receiving a benefit.

For example, if I my empire produces 3 times the resources of the neutral (say 60,000 vs 20,000)have a trade treaty with a Neutral and it reaches 20%, then the benefit I recieve is only 4,000 (20%x20,000) vs the benefit the neutal recieves of 12,000 (20%x60,000).

But it gets worse, the neutral now needs to produces less because half of its resourses come from my empire, so I eventually receive only about 1,000 while giving 12,000.

So the benefit to the stronger empire can be piddling compared to the benefit received by the neutral...yet they will always go to war...to face almost certain destruction.

Grandpa Kim · #5 August 17th, 2002, 03:36 AM

A neutral race never leaves its home system. Look at them as technically advanced but have yet to discover warp technology. And yes, they are very easy to beat. I regard them as a resource rather than an enemy.

Kim

ckotchey · #6 August 17th, 2002, 05:29 AM

So one more question then: what controls the number of neutrals present in a game? Since they seem easy targets, is it simply a fixed percentage, random, or adjusted by the difficulty level of the CPU players when setting up a game.

I also notice that the neutral races seem to have flags that are simple - of a single color. Is this a good assumption to help identify them?

Grandpa Kim · #7 August 17th, 2002, 05:57 AM

Quote:

what controls the number of neutrals present in a game?

As are many parameters, these numbers can be found in settings.txt in the data folder. In this case low is 1 to 3 neutrals, medium is 3 to 7, high is 6 to 10.

Quote:

I also notice that the neutral races seem to have flags that are simple - of a single color. Is
this a good assumption to help identify them?

Yes! A one to one correlation here.

Kim

Grandpa Kim · #8 August 17th, 2002, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arkcon:

quote:
Originally posted by tbontob:

For example, if I my empire produces 3 times the resources of the neutral (say 60,000 vs 20,000)have a trade treaty with a Neutral and it reaches 20%, then the benefit I recieve is only 4,000 (20%x20,000) vs the benefit the neutal recieves of 12,000 (20%x60,000).

Hmm ... as I understood the manual, the trade alliance worked differently. You got 20 % of YOUR production. It wasn't trade with the AI per say, it's ment to reflect a boost to your production caused by the trade. I think that's how I've seen trade income reported in the empire window as well.

So in your example, the 20 % bonus would be 12,000 for you, 4,000 for the neutral.

Sorry Arkcon, I'm quite sure tbontob has it right. The easy proof is that the trade amounts you get from your allies vary widely. If you were getting an amount based on your own production, you would get exactly the same amount from each ally-- at least once they all reached the 20% plateau.

Kim

[ August 17, 2002, 16:17: Message edited by: Grandpakim ]

capnq · #9 August 17th, 2002, 08:58 PM

Neutrals also always spend 0 racial points, regardless of what starting points new players get from the Game Set-Up, so all their characteristics are Average, and they never have Advanced Traits.

Q · #10 August 17th, 2002, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capnq:
Neutrals also always spend 0 racial points, regardless of what starting points new players get from the Game Set-Up, so all their characteristics are Average, and they never have Advanced Traits.

That is not necessarily so: you can edit the neutral general.txt file and change it like an ordinary race. I have done that in my mod and it works perfectly. However what is hard coded is, that neutrals don't colonize outside their original system and only on rare exceptions send ships through warp points.