HD combat in Syria

[DRG]

Remarkable footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bsDP5DznDQ

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD8yTGCMkLg

[Wiking]

I saw these a few months ago, and it really is a fascinating look at urban combat with tanks. They seem so potent and yet so vulnerable.

Notice how the Syrian infantry don't seem too eager to stick close to the tanks, probably recognizing how much fire they draw (to say nothing of the hellacious backblast from those main guns).

[Suhiir]

Yeah I noticed the tank-infantry cooperation was poor right off.
More then any other combat situation armor and infantry rely on each other in an urban environment.

[Wiking]

Arab armies in general seem to have fairly poor combined arms training. That or whatever training they did have fell apart as the civil war expanded. Either way, I'm pretty sure those T-72's are really vulnerable without the infantry sticking close by.

[Airborne Rifles]

It's also interesting to realize how small an area urban fighting can restrict relatively large forces to. That tank platoon and at least a platoon of infantry were wholly focused on that alley, the building, and the soccer field for at least two days. I think the camera perspective shows how small that area really is, though I'm sure it seemed like a labyrinth to the men fighting there.

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Wiking

Arab armies in general seem to have fairly poor combined arms training. That or whatever training they did have fell apart as the civil war expanded. Either way, I'm pretty sure those T-72's are really vulnerable without the infantry sticking close by.

Yeah, but whatcha gonna do against ATGM's (Kornet, Konkurs, Javelin, etc.) fired from a mile or more away in open country? Infantry might spot the firing position but even so they've only got maybe 10-15 seconds to interfere. If the tank crew doesn't spot the firing team and neutralize it first, evade or have onboard anti-missile systems it's practically dead meat. Unless they can pray to a Higher Being...

[Wiking]

True, but its better than -not- having the infantry around at all! I'm pretty sure their T-72's are not the latest and greatest, and all buttoned up like that they're going to see even less in an urban environs.

I'm reminded of all the times I cavalierly order my infantry to just sweep ahead of the tanks and eat the casualties without regard.

Makes you think.

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Wiking

True, but its better than -not- having the infantry around at all!

Really. If you don't have CIWS/VIRSS nowadays all you can do is either try to spot the "gunner" (missileer?) and suppress him with counter-fire (which in these cases the Syrian infantry was unable to do) or try to evade the missile itself. Good luck!

[Wiking]

Well ideally your infantry ought to be rooting out and spotting ATGM teams /before/ they get to shoot, but that might be a little old fashioned thinking on my part

I agree that once the missile is fired its too little too late, but if the infantry are doing security properly, they can mitigate AT attacks. Again, I would rather have the infantry than not in this kind of house to house fighting, especally since they can clear a rooftop...the tank can drop the roof but it sure as heck cant peek up there itself.

[Suhiir]

Really depends how your tank-infantry teams are trained to operate together.

For the most part the US Army was (is still?) equipped/trained for "The Big Battle", a primarily armor vs armor engagement. In such a case the infantry supports the armor who sometimes seems to forget infantry can't move as fast when dismounted and doesn't have 4+ inches of protection vs small arms/artillery. Additionally the armor-infantry ratio means there just plain aren't that many infantry to work with each tank.

Us Jarheads (USMC) view tanks as an infantry support asset, and don't have near as many to start with. So the ratio of infantry to armor is much higher and the armor tends to "hang back" with, and often behind, the infantry screen until called forward to deal with something.

The environment your trained to operate in and basic mindset (infantry supports armor or armor supports infantry) is important.

Then you have a lot of military forces that really don't train much in combined arms so have significant difficulties in the first place.