Gun Crews

[RERomine]

Why do crews have rifles when they man their guns, but only have revolvers when they have abandoned it?

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by RERomine

Why do crews have rifles when they man their guns, but only have revolvers when they have abandoned it?

Crews are merely a placeholder for abandoned kit, whether it is a gun, mortar, tank or bunker. One crew type does for all those.

Their point is to return to the thing and re-man it when things are less hectic if it is worthwhile to do so, or if a core unit to retire to the rear and preserve their valuable experience.

If a 150 point tank bails a crew after 1 point of track damage then assuming you draw or win and the enemy can be kept from occupying the same hex to flame the wreck then the survival of the crew means your enemy only received the few damage points. But using the crew as kamikaze scouts will ensure the 149 points balance is credited to him as an outright kill, win or lose should they get the chop. And as pointed out above, a replacement crew with lesser experience will join your core in a campaign.

They are not supposed to join in combat, they are not little Rambos. Their only point is survival.

Cheers
Andy

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

They are not supposed to join in combat, they are not little Rambos. Their only point is survival.

Agreed. Unfortunately, combat sometimes joins them. A 8-man crew from a 40mm Bofors can be easily eliminated by a 4-man scout unit because the Bofors crew no longer has their .303 rifles(range 10) and instead have SW .38 revolvers(range 1). The weapon difference makes the crew pretty much helpless to the smaller unit.

I was just curious about it. Thanks for the info Andy

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by RERomine

Agreed. Unfortunately, combat sometimes joins them. A 8-man crew from a 40mm Bofors can be easily eliminated by a 4-man scout unit because the Bofors crew no longer has their .303 rifles(range 10) and instead have SW .38 revolvers(range 1). The weapon difference makes the crew pretty much helpless to the smaller unit.

I was just curious about it. Thanks for the info Andy

Quite frankly, the guns should not have a silly rifle/SMG added - the gunners should be serving the weapon, and not popping off with rifles.

I have crewed the 25 pounder and you can be a gun bunny or a grunt but not both simultaneously. But that convention has been there since SP1, and if the gun crew are using personal weaponry then they are likely to be toast quite shortly. Gun crews are "packed" targets so have more chance of a catastrophic multi-person kill event than rifle sections.

However - I am of the type that deliberately abandons guns that may get into a firefight (@ key) with approaching infantry and my crewmen then "hide with pride"... Another use of crews is to go away to come back later when it is safe to do so.

Cheers
Andy

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Quite frankly, the guns should not have a silly rifle/SMG added - the gunners should be serving the weapon, and not popping off with rifles.

That actually makes more sense.

I have crewed the 25 pounder and you can be a gun bunny or a grunt but not both simultaneously. But that convention has been there since SP1, and if the gun crew are using personal weaponry then they are likely to be toast quite shortly. Gun crews are "packed" targets so have more chance of a catastrophic multi-person kill event than rifle sections.

However - I am of the type that deliberately abandons guns that may get into a firefight (@ key) with approaching infantry and my crewmen then "hide with pride"... Another use of crews is to go away to come back later when it is safe to do so.

Cheers
Andy

For tank crews, we had procedures where we removed the loader's machine gun and took any carbines we had on board if we had to abandon the tank. Part of that included destroying the tank if it was subject to capture so there wasn't any going back to it later. Thermite grenade in the gun breach, live round under the breach, ammo doors open, etc. Obviously, that wasn't going to happen if the tank was disabled due to enemy fire. It was more of a procedure you put into effect when you abandon the tank while it's not burning or continuing to be pounded. At that point, you just get out, settle with just having a personal side arm and try to get back and get a replacement tank.

I didn't raise the question about tank crews because I pretty much figured side arms would be all they would realistically have. As for gun crews, I don't know what they should and shouldn't have. I never served on one of those before, but what you said makes sense. I'm sure if you removed the rifles from the weapons list for guns however, someone will come up with some obscure instance were gun crews used rifles to defend their gun in some fire fight somewhere.

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by RERomine

Unfortunately, combat sometimes joins them. A 8-man crew from a 40mm Bofors can be easily eliminated by a 4-man scout unit because the Bofors crew no longer has their .303 rifles(range 10) and instead have SW .38 revolvers(range 1). The weapon difference makes the crew pretty much helpless to the smaller unit.

Tactical approach here could be to have some infantry near by the guns to provide close defense for them.

Say, a small reserve platoon representing those elements of the gun battery not crewing the guns formed into a close defense party.

Griefbringer

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Griefbringer

Tactical approach here could be to have some infantry near by the guns to provide close defense for them.

Say, a small reserve platoon representing those elements of the gun battery not crewing the guns formed into a close defense party.

Griefbringer

That's the theory, but it's actually the AI hanging it's guns and crews out to dry. It had three Bofors off on one flank with the nearest infantry unit a good 750m away. There never had been any infantry near or in front of the guns. A scout stumbled on the guns, so I called artillery in to chase the crews off. I knew abandoned guns would be counted as destroyed if I won the battle so I didn't try to destroy them. Victory wasn't in doubt at this point in the battle. The scout moved it and hounded the crews from a range of 100m, out of revolver range, until I was sure they wouldn't come back. If the battle could have gone either way, I would have spent the three turns destroying the guns instead to get the points for them.

[Griefbringer]

Well, the AI tends to have its share of occasional problems when it comes to deployment.

In that aspect, scenarios and ready made campaigns, where the deployment and force selection has been does by a human, can be more interesting.

Griefbringer