magic modding question

[Aezeal]

Can you:

1. Make it so a nation cannot use the regular spells
2. Make it so a nation gets a different research curve than other nations

I would like this because IMHO a dwarf race should not have magic. I'm thinking of modding that dwarf thing here on the forum. The plan would to make a number of spells holy/earth

the race would then only need to research earth and shouldn't get ANY other spells. of course.. with regular research you'd get all your spells quite fast so I'd want every level to take about 4 times as long. (So this race would be fully researched the same time others would have researched 4 different groups till level 9)

The dwarves would then become a fanatical religous race (high level priests) which would get sacred gunners (yes magic guns, I really liked why the other mod didn't want to use guns but I like the idea of being fanatical it combines good with not trading/telling etc about the magic involved in crafting the guns.)

[Wauthan]

As far as I know you can't remove spells or modify research
for one specific nation. But is it really needed? Just don't
give the nation any spellcasters (save priests) or gem income
at all. That way only the pretender and independent mages are
available.

If the player still wants to use spells it's still a possibility,
though a bit more difficult then usual, while it lets you
focus on making a nonmagic nation viable in lategame.
I assume variations of #domsummon might be useful to
simulate new units being constructed rather then summoned.

[DrPraetorious]

1. No. The engine internals do support what you describe (notice that LA Ermor does not get the regular priest spells) but this isn't accessible to modders, and is probably hard coded somehow.

2. Not directly, but you can give them national spells, partway up the research tree, that provide a research bonus.

So, a nation could have lousy researchers and then a spell at Const 5 which enables them to build superior researchers.

I think it violates the spirit of the game to prevent the dwarven pretender from casting death spells if he has death magic, myself, anyway.

[Aezeal]

the dwarven pretender would have to be scales and/or SC

I see another way.

Wauthan has the right idea

If I give the nation no magicians, they can't construct labs, so no indep mages either (unless they get a lab through event)

Then the pretender remains, can I remove all standard pretenders from a race and let them only choose from a few new ones (a few new ones with no magic paths and new magic path cost 5000000000)

I'd just have to make a whole lot of holy spells

DAMN you can't research holy spells so you'd start with them all.. which can't ever be balanced

hmm or... they get research.. so they can research and then .., damn I'm stuck can you make earth spells which require no earth level or gems to cast?

[Wauthan]

You know, it would be a lot easier to give advice and ideas if
you mentioned what effects you're going for.

A 'tiered' summoning of units, without spellcasting, is pretty
easy. One expensive unit has #domsummon of the first tier unit.
That unit has #domsummon of the next tier unit and so on...
This forces the player to keep the 'chain of summoning' intact while
still making the nation grow increasingly more powerful as dominion
spreads. So in effect you've got a research system based on praying
priests, though it's a bit clunky.

Attack spells can be simulated with either ranged weapons,
which uses ammo, or #onbattlespell using custom spells.

[Edratman2]

I think it can be done, although I don't know how to get around indy mages.

Set the nation's only pretender with earth and set the price for all other paths so high that you cannot afford to take a single one. Then all you would have is whatever you put on the nationals and the pretender with earth. It wouldn't be too bad if the pretender did have access to a little earth magic.

As for speed, I do not know if the command "#researchscale" affects only your nation or everyone. I've never used it but I am sure someone can advise.

Another alternative to Wauthan's fine tiered suggestion is to put your summons at level 8 (for example) in different schools of magic.

[Saulot]

There's no way to get rid of the spellbooks without doing so for the other nations.

You also can't get rid of the base pretenders.

Er,... Well, you can't do either of these without doing some really extensive modding. Crazy amounts of modding, using crazy amounts of unit slots and spell slots. Maybe more than exist.

Unfortunately, all these dwarves wouldn't be forging. Which is a shame.

The tiered method doesn't work.
Commanders which summon other units are commanders, and units can't summon anything.

Even if it did work, it means that every time you play, you'd pretty much follow the same formula and moves you did last time. Furthermore, unless balanced precisely (since it uses a brancing method, each change of balance has exponential effects), it becomes a freespawn nation likely more powerful than Ermor/R'lyeh.

Researchscale is modded for the entire game (all nations). Though you can mod individual mages of any power down to have only 1 research.

I've given the no-magic idea a lot of thought before (thinking about a Macedon vs. Achaemenid mod), and it's really just not feasible. Dom3 is a fantasy high-magic game, and cutting out all the magic is like removing the torso from a zombie. All you get is a giant mess.

[Endoperez]

I think researchable holy spells work just as well as any others. The problem is that there's no holy spells, and thus the only limit would be the availability of casters. Once you can summon one Holy 6 "mage", you can summon one more every turn.

[Sombre]

Not if you make them unique.

But then you're really starting to go way out there for an idea that might not be so great to begin with. As Saulot points out, if you're trying to make a huge change to the core game mechanics you usually end up with a bit of a mess which sort of works but probably isn't very enjoyable.

I was thinking about the same issue when I was planning out Warhammer Dwarfs. The Dwarfs in warhammer have no magic and use runes and items instead. I need to find a way to translate that to dom3 in a way that is interesting and playable. So Dwarfs can't have very strong magic, lots of paths etc. But just giving them great earth magic also doesn't really fit how they are in warhammer. The answer imo is low levels of magic which the player can boost up if they so wish (so max probably 2E 1F or something) plus lots of interesting rune based national spells and summons which are largely low level and very powerful, but require gems. Dwarfs have a solid gem income thanks to either units which produce them or possibly just lots in their cap - this fits their character and allows for the Dwarfs to 'power' a magical pretender by giving them lots of gems, as well as empowering their own mages.

I was also planning on putting a second 'path' of magic for the dwarfs by giving them holy/earth spells which are all 1 or 2 earth but increasing levels of holy required - these are for the Runesmiths with anvils of shooty lightning and so on.

Anyway, that was the plan. I'll do them in the future no doubt, since they're all mapped out.

[Aezeal]

Well basicly I'd want the dwarves not to have acces to the regular spells of earth too...

I'd just want some summonings and forging.

The thing I'd REALLY like is to have recruitables and somehow upgrade their weapons when somesort of research has been completed. (to compensate for later game battlefield wide spells.)

This could be done by making them summons most easily.. but dwarves don't get summoned they should just get trained like others.

I know what sombre and saulot mean, but I don't think a non-magic nation would per definition not work in dominions.. but with current modding it just seems not possible