Opinions on the 50% cost refit limit? Should I limit it to 30-40% to navalize SE IV?

[MKSheppard]

Right now, with the 50% limit, I find I can
take a Mark I Battlecruiser...say...Hood,
and refit it into a Mark IV Battlecruiser
with 3x the firepower and 3x sensors quite
easily...

If it was THAT easy IRL to refit ships,
why did the Royal Navy bother building
all those Dreadnoughts from 1906 to 1914?

You have the Dreadnought single ship
class in 1905, Bellerophon class of
3 ships in 1906, St. Vincent class of 3 in 1907, etc...

I think limiting Refits to 30% - 40% of the initial cost of a ship would help prevent
the constant refitting of ships into new
superships and force players to actually
construct new ships instead of constantly
upgrading 20 year old spaceframes

[MKSheppard]

Right now, with my mod making you have to
plonk down 16,000 minerals to get the base
Dreadnought hull, the major naval powers
only have 60-70 ships, while medium powers
have 20-30, and tiny powers have 1-10.

My 62 ship navy, consisting of roughly:

10 Battlecruisers (1 foreign hull in there)

9 light cruisers

17 Destroyers

5 Repair Ships

5 Refuelling ships

2 light carriers,

3 Heavy Amphibious Assault ships (the only Battleship hulls I have in my navy)

2 small amphibious asasault ships

1 transport

2 Minelayers

Costs me 120,000 minerals per turn to
maintain

I need to correct AI problems here
tho...right now the AI only puts 5 engines
onto it's designs, and I've implemented
the ENGINES PER MOVE field, which makes
Dreadnoughts move at 2 per turn....you can
make your ships move as fast as YOU want...
depending on how much YOU want to give over
to engines, and not guns, armor, etc.

[CW]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MKSheppard:
If it was THAT easy IRL to refit ships,
why did the Royal Navy bother building
all those Dreadnoughts from 1906 to 1914?

---

In the real world it is not that easy to refit ships, but I have absolutely no problems and complains with the current system in the game.

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

---

I think limiting Refits to 30% - 40% of the initial cost of a ship would help prevent the constant refitting of ships into new superships and force players to actually construct new ships instead of constantly upgrading 20 year old spaceframes

---

quote:

---

In the real world it is not that easy to refit ships, but I have absolutely no problems and complains with the current system in the game.

---

Also, if you do limit the retrofits, players will just use retrofit chains more often. It would just be a hassle, rather than a gameplay improvement.

The one item that would most encourage building new ships rather than retrofitting, IMO, is the Ablative or Plasma Armor in P&N.
Since it comes in 1KT segments, retrofitting it can take years, while building a new ship normally takes only 3-4 turns.
Still, you could always mothball the ship while it is undergoing a retrofit, and build a new ship at the same time; you end up with two for the price of one.

Also, consider experience. You do not want to scrap & rebuild any ship in SE4, since you then lose the crew's experience.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip>-
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[Atrocities]

Right now, the cost is too high. I would like to see it a tad lower.

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG
New Age Ship Yards

[rdouglass]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Right now, the cost is too high. I would like to see it a tad lower.

---

Isn't that just a mod change to a text file? (I can't remember the name right now - I'm at work.)

[DirectorTsaarx]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MKSheppard:
I need to correct AI problems here
tho...right now the AI only puts 5 engines
onto it's designs, and I've implemented
the ENGINES PER MOVE field, which makes
Dreadnoughts move at 2 per turn....you can
make your ships move as fast as YOU want...
depending on how much YOU want to give over
to engines, and not guns, armor, etc.

---

I think suicide_junkie had a similar problem in early Versions of his mod, until he realized that the "desired speed" setting in the design files is actually "maximum number of engines". So if you implement "engines per move", you'll have to increase the desired speed settings for the AI's so they put enough engines on...

[Suicide Junkie]

You've got a similar problem to what I had, in the propulsion area, but there is a critical difference.

AFAI can tell, you've only got 2 EPM for dreadnaughts.
If you adjusted your mod so that the EnginesPerMove was proportional to mass, then you could use my AI patcher to alter the AIs and put more engines on larger ships.

It seems to me that the only adjustments to the AI's engine usage that you can do is:
-Actual number of engines
-% of space devoted to engines

So, unless your mod works along either of those lines, you'll have AI engine trouble.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1b>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip>-
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)