MA Shinuyama-MP-boost the Kappas

Xietor · #1 July 6th, 2007, 07:37 PM

I have been playing MA Shinuyama in a mp game, and it is my 1st time playing the race. While I recognize that not all races are supposed to be equal, and that the game has a much larger fan base of sp rather than mp, I think this race could use a tweak.

The Dai Bakemono is a solid unit. But they are hard to amass early. Envision a sleeping pretender and a dominion 10 Great Wyrm paying you a visit before you can research flaming arrows, or a pack of double 9 blessed vans.

The lack of sacred units also makes it expensive to maintain a large army of any of the tougher units. MA Shinuyama has no calvary or units with shields either.

The O-bakemono is fairly tough, and low resource cost. But it is an expensive unit to maintain as well. And again, the lack of a shield makes them vulnerable as front line troops.

The Kappa, with its unique ability to cripple foes is an appealing choice as an infantry unit. But they suffer greatly from fatigue, and have no shield.

While Shinuyama is certainly not a favored race of mine, I would love to see the Kappa lose it fatigue handicap on land and get a turtle shield. They then would serve as a pricey, but effective mp infantry unit.

And they would not be unbalancing. Compare them to Pangaea's 13 gold infantry unit that also has recuperation, but has a shield. And unlike Pangea's infantry, the Kappa is severely limited with a mr of 8! Obviously any race with mind blasters or smiters would eat them for lunch. Their sub par defense of 9 would be boosted appropriately by the turtle shield.

Since they are not sacred, they could not be beefed up into unstoppable killing machines like EA Lanka's apes. And again they will always be exceptionally vulnerable due to a mr of 8.

Kristoffer O · #2 July 6th, 2007, 08:25 PM

Kappas actually have very high defense, but if they would use it they would spill even more of their precious head-water and loose all fatigue immediately.

Under water they have no spinal water leakage.

Xietor · #3 July 6th, 2007, 09:15 PM

Yes,

I understand the theory of the Kappa(and I like it), but unfortunately MA Shinuyama is a land race, not a water race. And while it is huge(at times) to have an amphibious unit, I think they could in MP use some type of unit with a shield, or at the very least, something that can give another race pause from launching an early assault.

Units that can give an SC a limp are nice, but it is a shame they suffer from such penalties in terms of fatigue, no shield, below average defense, and the mr of an elephant!

The low resource cost is sweet, but I think it would be more advantageous to raise it some and remove at least one of their penalties.

My suggestion with the Kappa was just a personal one, as I do really like the kappa, but sadly do not use them on land (and even more sadly there is no water anywhere near my location on the map in the game I am in).

I am sure there are dozens of ways to make Shinuyama better able to compete in the early game in mp. While the races will never be balanced, perhaps rightly so,it would be nice to give each race something to give other races pause besides taking an awake pretender.

Lazy_Perfectionist · #4 July 6th, 2007, 09:18 PM

One person I'm aware of had great success with Shinuyama's province defense. The O'bakemono becomes available at 20 pd, and is half-price at that point.

vfb · #5 July 6th, 2007, 09:19 PM

One problem with shields is that they are unthematic for nations based on Japanese history and myth.

Xietor · #6 July 6th, 2007, 09:24 PM

Agreed on the pd. That is certainly the strong point of the race.

And I am not critical of the race, it has interesting units,just offering a suggestion.

Kappa is not really a Japanese concept though, and I think a turtle shield would fit them well thematically.

vfb · #7 July 6th, 2007, 10:17 PM

Kappas are from Japanese mythology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_%28folklore%29

Xietor · #8 July 6th, 2007, 11:17 PM

Ok,

I stand corrected, but I still think a turtle shield would fit thematically with a Kappa. After all, they wear a turtle shell on their back.

And maybe they would only lose fatigue if they suffer a blow to their head, since that is where the depression is that holds the water.

Or you could let them buy a Shisha, capital only for 250 gold
each!

http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shishivs6.jpg

quantum_mechani · #9 July 7th, 2007, 02:32 AM

Of all the units to complain of needing rebalancing, I don't think the Kappa is one of them. Not only are they some of the only high prot/low rec troops in the game, there are always cases were being able to get underwater easy is a niche in itself. They are not that powerful a unit, they are what I think more units should be like- useful in some cases, with interesting advantages and disadvantages.

Xietor · #10 July 7th, 2007, 10:02 AM

QM,

Obviously you are fairly adept at balance issues, but many races have signature units that discourage early rushes. Say from a dom 10 wyrm, vans, etc.

For instance, MA Pythium has a hydra, many races have a capital only or blessed units. Several races have size 6 tramplers, that when combined with high morale units can be tough early.

What unit, if you do not mind me asking, is that for MA Shinuyama? I understand that some other races also have this vulnerability. While there is nothing wrong with the Kappa as is, I feel the race could use a tweak upwards.

And since the Kappa is such a cool unit, especially with a bone breaking attack, that is the unit i think would be a nice one to boost.