advices ANTI EA R'lyeh needed

AreWeInsaneYet · #1 May 18th, 2007, 01:19 AM

I'm playing EA vanheim in a not-so-big map with these aboleths be my nearest neighbor. So far we are good with each other as I can't enter the water while they can't sink my ship when I sail above their tentacle woods, but as my capitol is a good good beach city an assault against the great Vanhalla once they get amulets of fish is without any question. The one ray of sunshine is that I had THREE kappa provinces under my control and I'm wondering if I can actually mass kappas to turn down aboleths and advance to their capitol, or shall I try my best to avoid a conflict with R'lyeh as long as possible?

Is there any tactics available for vanheim against Mind Lord Swarm, and is there any strageties for vanheim against the underwater nightmare?

MaxWilson · #2 May 18th, 2007, 01:58 AM

Well, since you're Vanheim you can forge underwater items pretty easily (Pills of Water Breathing, Barrel of Air), so the underwater part isn't really a factor. Unfortunately you have no astral casters for Antimagic, and the troops you have tend to be elite-but-few. On the plus side Vanheres should chop right through Mind Lords even with e.g. Ironskin, Luck, and Body Ethereal cast. That's about as far as my experience can take the analysis.

-Max

Saxon · #3 May 18th, 2007, 01:59 AM

Can you tell us what bless you have? I am boldly assuming that Vanheim would be played with a bless.

Also, what paths do you have on your pretender? That would help people thinking of magic options for you.

Yes, those two things are pretty much the same question, but you might have some paths that are useful but don't give a bless.

AreWeInsaneYet · #4 May 18th, 2007, 02:18 AM

I get a W9A9 double bless god without any other magic, like what you would assume vanheim doing these days.

Since I lack the old-style F9 part, chop mind lords won't be that easy even if my units managed get there; the ability to go underwater with construct magic is out of question, but I'm wondering that maybe kappas could handle it better than my national troops?

And yes, it's a pain to have no astral at all. no anti magic, no duel spam, extremely vulnerable to mind lords

vfb · #5 May 18th, 2007, 02:38 AM

An important thing to have in this fight is MR. Your sacred Vanheres have MR 14. Kappas have MR 8. Kappas will get nuked by spells and Gibo Mind Blasts.

Your Vanheres should be just fine with their high speed and high MR. With no arrows to hurt them, they should look like a bunch of underwater cuisinarts. I think barrels of air are the way to go.

The Vanheres might be vulnerable to hordes of freespawns. Do you have anything AoE that will work underwater?

MaxWilson · #6 May 18th, 2007, 02:48 AM

With +5 berserk, an F9 bless on the Vanheres is really not necessary to chop Mind Lords (and you *do* have quickness). All the Vanir units have terrific MR, which is another reason for R'lyeh to be wary of you.

Good point, vfb, about MR on kappas. Other than that kappas are terrific, and if construction magic is out of the question... save up a whole bunch of gold, then create 300 kappas in two turns and drop them on R'lyeh. Mind blast only has 10 ammunition or so, eventually they'll run out.

-Max

Saxon · #7 May 18th, 2007, 02:52 AM

Yes, the kappas will get hurt, but they are the chaff in this fight. Try to position them a bit in front of the vanheres, so the first round of firing should target the kappas instead of the vanheres. It will only help a bit, but it will help buy some time for those water blessed units to get up close and personal.

With Air 9 and Water 9, you can forge the items you will need to take an army underwater. You just need to look at the manual and determine if you need Construction 2, 4 or 6.

Also, you mentioned you can sail over them. Can you outflank them somehow? I know, old fashioned earth tactics, but it might work. Take a cheap province on the far side of him and threaten from two sides? Units with glamour help this sort of trick... It would depend on the map.

Finally, and you probably already have this in mind, but make sure you are winning the dominion struggle. If I am correct, he is getting free spawns and it is based on dominion. Make sure he is opposed in this, if only raiding the provinces with temples. You don't get such a nice benifit, but you do want to limit his advantage.

vfb · #8 May 18th, 2007, 04:15 AM

Outflank! Good idea. Forget about sailing, with a pure Van army you can sneak right into any province you want and attack at will, wherever/whenever you want. Temples are a superb place to attack, or any high pop province. Hit any castles too if you think he's not patrolling. You will wipe out the 25 PD in his capital with a bunch of Vans no problem.

So maybe keep building one big army of Kappas as a distraction, craft some pills, and send a bunch of small squads out to take water provinces where there is just PD. Set tax to 200% and hide, sneak away, or attack a neighboring province.

AreWeInsaneYet · #9 May 18th, 2007, 05:42 AM

My sincerely thanks, brothers.

For the damage spell : Earth has none, while Air has a limited number of such spells, that including lightning bolt, orb lightning and (meh)shimmering fields, but sadly thunderstrike can't be cast underwater.

The point of MR is very useful, I'll get a number of kappas for gido to buy some time. Not sure how many mind lords the R'lyeh has(usually they'll buy one every turn they could, no?) so enslave mind may still be a trouble, but that's the best struggle I could anyway

About berserk+5, I think it just negates "Poor Amphibian" penalty that applies to my vanheres, while mind lords has a plenty of hp and aoe life drain and of course body ethereal

The idea of outflanking's just amazing. I'll do my best to be something more than a nuisance, prepare for that, tentacles! =D