fleeing sc?

[wailoktam]

Somehow I manage to try on building sc b4 getting overran by the mass of troops sent by impossible+agreesive ai. Unfortunately, my attempt is not very successful.

Here is what I try:

1 wraith lord + wraith sword + wraith crown + bone amour + ring of regeneration

2 wraith lord + horror helmet + standard of the damned + bone armour + ring of regeneration

They do not get killed but they always flee. In some case, it is around the time their hp drops to dangerous level. In some other case, when the undead comes with them all dies, they flee.

Any suggestion on building sc that can defeat AI troops of hundreds of garbage units, in particular, not using pretenders?

Any solution to the fleeing?


Thanks in advance.

[lch]

I pretty much think that you don't need to equip Wraith Lords with Bane Blades because they already carry them.

wailoktam said:
They do not get killed but they always flee. In some case, it is around the time their hp drops to dangerous level. In some other case, when the undead comes with them all dies, they flee.

Read about morale checks in your manual. They were built in so that SCs don't have it too easy.

wailoktam said:
Any solution to the fleeing?

Slave collars. *shrug*

[Potatoman]

Two solutions to the fleeing exist:
Have the SC enter combat alone, or give him the ability to berserk.

Your SC setups are big on regen but you overlook survivability. One guy with a magic weapon (to bypass the wraith crown) and a few screeners can KO the wraithlord very quickly, because his defense is not stellar (each successive attack in a round reduces defense, so you will get hit) and his prot is subpar. The most obvious issue is that Wraith Lords can cast Soul Vortex with their own magic and do not need the expensive and low-prot Bone Armor to do it for them. The Wraith Lord would be better served by Jade Armor (for quickness) or Marble Armor (for Stoneskin). I would also recomend a pendant of luck, for the 50% miss chance.

[Nick_K]

Slave collars give feeblemind which heavily reduces MR and removes magic... not very desirable on a spellcasting undead SC.

I believe that morale has been changed. In Dom2 single commanders would never route from battle AFAIK. In Dom3 a single commander who takes damage (or is affected by fear, perhaps?) can route.

Berserk units will never route, even if the army they're with does. Immortal units (like wraith lords) will not route if they are in friendly dominion.

As for your SC designs:

1 wraith lord + wraith sword + wraith crown + bone amour + ring of regeneration

Antithematically, wraith lords are already ethereal so they don't really need expensive wraith crowns. Wraith lords don't really need the bone armour either. They can cast soul vortex themselves (perhaps with skullface, I forget), and bone armour is otherwise poor.
Regeneration is not so important for them. Immortal units naturally heal afflictions, and the soul vortex spell allows you to heal against chaff units.

2 wraith lord + horror helmet + standard of the damned + bone armour + ring of regeneration

I'm not convinced about the standard. It does add to fear but it is poor in melee and the wraith lord is a spellcaster and doesn't really need the item spell. I think it'd be better to equip an average commander with it - it'll be just as effective.

Off the top of my head, a decent design with no artifacts could be:

Any good melee weapon. Frost/fire/shadow brand do area damage. Woundflame is an army killer if you have artifacts.
Lantern shield OR Shield of gleaming gold OR lucky coin OR Charcoal shield
Skull face (if needed for soul vortex) or otherwise either spirit helmet (expensive but good) or horror helmet.
Boots of quickness - very important
Jade armour if you can't get the boots - quickness is vital for a melee SC.
Otherwise, good armours include the chain mail of displacement and the marble breastplate. Against some AIs you may want resistances though so e.g. red dragon scale mail may be useful against Abysia, but you can get resistances from misc items too. The robe of invulnerability can be good if you have super cheap forging with 'forge of the ancients'

Misc items... This varies depending on what you're up against. Luck is important so take the lucky amulet. The amulet of antimagic, bracers of protection, ring of regen are some other cheap possibilities.

Script 'cast soul vortex' followed by 'attack'

There are many designs though, and this is just one. However, this won't stop the SC from routing. It'll be effective in friendly dominion but not otherwise.

If you are in hostile dominion you want the berserk ability. This can be gotten from the berserker pelt armour, but this does have poor protection - maybe still ok against chaff units. Anyone have suggestions about other ways to get it? The Lychantropos amulet on a warith would be incredibly stupid. I seem to remember the flesh eater gave berserk in Doms2, but it's not listed now. plus, items that make you berserk from the start of the battle will stop you casting spells.

Well, hth.

[Wish]

I know in Dom 2 undead couldn't become werewolves, so a lycantropos amulet is better than a slave collar.

[Nick_K]

Ah? I didn't know that. If that's the case the amulet is very nice. It'll stop you casting spells though, so maybe the bone armour is worth thinking about.

[wailoktam]

Thanks for all the replies. Nick and Potatoe Man are particularly helpful. So I think I have made the mistake of letting my chokepoint city falling in hostile dominion. (I get a temple there but I have not got enough priests to make sure that it is in my dominion).

So my wraith lord flees because it is in a hostile dominion. If in a friendly dominion, it would not flee even if it takes damages?

I think during morale check, if all the units commanded by a commander flees, the commander would flees. So I should never allow an sc to command any unit? You know, I like to get my wraith lord to summon ghosts. And it appears that my wraith lords always start battle with a handful of undeads with him. Does it make it impossible to stop him fleeing when all those crappy units get killed in a turn or two?

One more thing to confirm: My sc did not flee because he gets tired, right? Undead with 0 encumbrance does not get tired with any heavy armour, right?

I like the wraith sword because I was once defeated by the heroes (two trolls, a mage, a dark knight and someone I cant remember) badly. I kill four of them with my army the first time I get beaten. The real big disaster comes later. All the weapons held by the killed four goes to the remainging troll. The wraith sword initially comes from the dark knight adds hp to him everytime he kills a guy of mine in a second big defeat. I think he kills a big army of a few hundred units of mine in my second defeat and hence I think a life drain weapon is the key to a sc.

[Nick_K]

Yeah, immortal commanders will never flee if they're in friendly dominion. They'll fight to the death. Of course, if they die you lose any items they're equipped with, so you want to make sure they win

Encumberance doesn't affect fleeing. Wraiths won't get fatigue from fighting but they can still get it from casting spells. However, sould vortex will remove their fatigue quit quickly.

The wraith sword is ok, and some was of regaining hp is indeed vital to SCs, but it has its weaknesses. In particular, you only get 5 points of life drain damage per attack and it's two handed. Bogus /also/ has high prot and very good regeneration.

With soul vortex, you already have a source of lifedrain so I think a good shield will improve your survivability more. The fear/awe combo in particular is very nice and can dramatically cut down on attacks from low-morale chaff units. It works well with soul vortex, because you can drain enemies even if they don't attack you.

Bogus is quite vulnerable to magical attacks, by the way. A bunch of mages with 'charm' scripted is an especially nice one.

[Blofeld]

Nick_K said:

Bogus is quite vulnerable to magical attacks, by the way. A bunch of mages with 'charm' scripted is an especially nice one.

Agreed, but don't get attached to him once you charm him. Strip him of his items, because when another 'Bogus and co. attack' event happens somewhere, he'll disappear in a puff of smoke.

[mivayan]

Sounds like you fight huge undead hordes - most basic skeletons are lifeless, so life draining weapons wont work. Neither will soul vortex... I think.