Soviet Union SPOB 11 KV-1 tank-gun confusion.

[Nox]

units:

-022 - KV-1 M1940: Wrong gun should be "050 - 76.2mm L30 L-11",
also wrong name should be KV-1 M1939.

Additional note on unit 022:
This unit has an availability date of December 1939. However in the Russo- Finnish Winterwar only 1 KV tank prototype saw action in December 1939 on a single battle. The tanks massproduction and use did not come until after the Winterwar from late March 1940 onwards. So for gameplay and realism the units availability could be changed to Apr 1940.

-290 - KV-1E M1940: Wrong gun should be "048 - 76.2mm L31 F-32"

-545 - KV-1 M1942: wrong Winter icon should be "4457" (whit the longer gun barrel graphic).

[DRG]

There are all new KV Icons in the game for V2 so the old icons are not relavant

I will consider changing the introduction date. If I do, you understand someone ELSE will complain that since it was used it SHOULD be included

However, I found one source that says....."First production models, these tanks were prone to frequent breakdowns, but were highly resiliant to anti-tank weapons during the Winter War. These tanks were armed with the 76mm L-11 tank gun. Also called KV-1 M1939."
http://www.thebestlinks.com/KV__MM__1.html

The line...... "but were highly resiliant to anti-tank weapons during the Winter War" indicates either that one tank was very, very busy or there were more than one. So what's your source for this "only one" info ??

EDIT. A different source says....."The prototypes of this tank first saw action while piercing the Mannerheim line during the war against Finland."

Prototypes--- indicating there were more than just one in Finland
http://www.lemaire.happyhost.org/char/complet/589.html

I will make the two unit corrections. That source I quoted confirms the L-11 gun on the M1939 and the F-32 on the KV-1E M1940

Don

[DRG]

Check your sources and see if you can tell me when the last KV-1's were withdrawn from the front

Don

[Marek_Tucan]

Darn! Shouldn't this topic have come two days earlier? Just returned a very detailed book on Soviet pre- and WW2 AFV's of all kinds, so just what do I recall...
The book suggested KV-1 prototype participated. It was set to attack a Finnish strongpoint and it survived the battle with IIRC 14 hits by 37mm and 47mm guns to various parts, only damage done was disabled main gun due to barrel hit - the gun was changed and the tank was ready to roll again. However it was noted the 76mm gun is not enough for breeching fortification line.
As for last KV's, the book hinted that although KV's were being phased out with the advent of IS series, some KV's of various vversions participated even in the battle of Berlin, most likely these would be KV-1S and KV-85 variants (my wild *** guess as I don't have reference at hand).

Just checked out battlefield.ru, they claim only that "tank was sent to front" without specifications, however they're using "tank" hinting just one piece went.

[blazejos]

I think that can be too useful

Fotos with description about sreened KV-1 tanks
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/g...es/KV_1scr.htm

Table with data about production of russian tanks see KV-1
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/w...tion_20_41.htm

Data about production KV tanks years 1941-43
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/w...duction.htm#KV

Data about guns used in rusian tanks
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/w.../art_tanks.htm

And about Sights used in this guns
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/w...sign_tanks.htm

Good site (In Cyrlic) about KV-1 but you can find Model 1939 even if you can't read in russian like I
http://armoured.vif2.ru/kv-1.htm

Ultimate source and the best what I found too in russian
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/KV/

About use KV tank in Winter war
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/b...ar/KV_finn.htm
And the map of this battle
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/m...K_T_100_40.jpg

So this tank model was produced to december 1943. But I read in the book about Polish People army LWP. Two this tank (KV-1) was send to this army in January 1945 as a school equipment. So I think that mean a year after halting the production tank wasn't in line units. Conclusion is this model was retrat from front line somewhere around early/half 1944

[Nox]

DRG said:
There are all new KV Icons in the game for V2 so the old icons are not relavant

I will make the two unit corrections. That source I quoted confirms the L-11 gun on the M1939 and the F-32 on the KV-1E M1940

Don

Yes, thats is cool.

DRG said:
Check your sources and see if you can tell me when the last KV-1's were withdrawn from the front

Don

That is wery hard to pinpoint precisely but generaly the tanks were used until battlefield losses phased them out. Acording to a book I have on the subject of Soviet tanks "Punaiset panssarit by Pekka Kantakoski" on page 115 it says that there were no "confirmed" sightings of KV-1 tanks in the summer 1944 offensive on the Karelian isthmus (Finland) and that by that time they had all been replaced by KV-85's and IS- heavy tanks. Now this does not necessarily mean that there weren't some still left in summer of 1944 but they were wery rare by that time.

Marek_Tucan said:
Just checked out battlefield.ru, they claim only that "tank was sent to front" without specifications, however they're using "tank" hinting just one piece went.

Yes I was looking at the Russian battlefild site too. I have also read about it somewhere else and acording to what I had heard I got the understanding that only one prototype was used.

However looking at the book again "Punaiset Panssarit" it says not one but two KV-1 prototypes took part in the attack in December 17 1939, the book may be wrong in this since its made in 1996 and new information may have become available since then from the Russian archives. Acording to the book and the info on the Russian battlefield site it was the same engagement where the SMK heavy tank prototype and T-100 were tested. Of the SMK tank there are photographs taken also. From those test the KV-1 was chosen (wisely) as the new heavy tank for mass production.

Here's the link for the article on the battlefield.ru -site I was reading, scroll down to the mid way of the page and it starts to speak about the winterwar whit KV -prototype, SMK, T-100, etc...:
http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...d=54&Itemid=48

Also during the winterwar the KV-1 tank if it was indeed used more it was wery unknown to the finnish troops and also it became as a completely new tank to the Germans in 1941. Also less than 200 KV-1 M1939 (the first series production) manufactured during 1940, so it was not wery numerious.

[Nox]

Hmmm... might be an interesting idea for a scenario that KV-1, SMK and T-100 test in the Winterwar.

Seriously I was thinking of making my first scenario about it and that is when I started to study the availability dates and usage of the KV-1. So I hope you do not get angry from my nagging.

[DRG]

See if you can find anything at all on the "Kv-57" It's in the game so somebody had info on it but I cannot find any

Don

[Nox]

source: Russian battlefield -site again.

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...d=78&Itemid=50

There is a line: "In May 1943, the "T-34 tank-hunter" and "KV tank-hunter" were accepted for service again. They were armed with modernised ZIS-4M tank gun... "

So far that is the only info Ive found about it.

So it would look as the KV-57 was a similar thing to the T-34/57, the arnament was changed to a more effective (in AT role not HE) gun. These were limited edition vehicles. The vehicle ingame seems to reprecent this tank.

[DRG]

Interesting, The Kv-85 did not have a BMG.

The first KV-85s were re-worked from excess KV-1S hulls, welding up the hole for the ball-mounted hull machine gun. The incorrect opinion has appeared in Western literature that there was a "second version" of the KV-85 with a flexible front machine gun. This confusion most likely arose as a result of study by Western experts of the only KV-85 tank that has been preserved to this day (monument in Avtovo, St.Peterburg), where a mistake was made in the restoration process. According to archival data, 148 KV-85 tanks were produced; they were sent to the front beginning in September 1943. Simultaneously, output of the KV-1S tank was continued until December 1943.

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...d=49&Itemid=50

Now removed from the unit..

Don