Anyone tried The Barbarian Horde strategy?

Jubala · #1 June 6th, 2001, 05:13 PM

In other words, building lots and lots of small cheap ships to overwhelm enemy large expensive ships. It works very well in Stars! if done correctly but is it a viable strategy in Space Empires IV? Anyone tried?

Nitram Draw · #2 June 6th, 2001, 05:48 PM

I've never tried it on a large scale but I have fought very late into game with BC's as my largest ship. If it is equipped right and you have sufficient numerical advantage waves of small ships certainly seem like a viable strategy.

Jubala · #3 June 6th, 2001, 06:38 PM

Yes, but is it cost effective? The Horde ships need to be fast and cheap to build and cheap to maintain. And still be able to dish out and take some punishment. I was thinking Light Cruisers as maximum size to get the Large Mounts. Maybe even use Destroyers. Haven tried it, but it would be cool if ot could be done.

Nitram Draw · #4 June 6th, 2001, 06:49 PM

Yeah, LC is the size I try to get to fast. They can dish it out and don't cost a fortune to maintain.

Urendi Maleldil · #5 June 6th, 2001, 06:57 PM

During a high-tech game, a temporal player can crank out cheap attack frigates at one per turn.

Nitram Draw · #6 June 6th, 2001, 07:12 PM

Swarms of little ships early in the game have given me fits before.
There would probably be a point where you would have to increase the size of your horde ship.
Early in a game I'm sure a swarm of frigates could take out 1/3-1/2 their number of CA"S especially if you opponent doesn't have a very advanced multiplex tracker.
I think once you are facing BB's and larger you definately would need larger ships to begin doing some damage because you would need the large mounts, unless you went with a kamikazi swarm of escorts and frigates! Even against DN's you can do well with BC's, if you outnumber them and you fight tactical.

rdouglass · #7 June 6th, 2001, 07:58 PM

I have used this effectively, but only after having good weapons, shields, and armor (as well as my fav - the Talisman). At least it works well when I move first and set up the right strategies. I use Max range (1st) and Dont Get Hurt (2nd) and NEVER use the standard 'V' formation (I loose more Strat battles that way!!); I use a enhanced double line formation.

However, I have less luck when I go second in battle. If I manually select / config an AI player (in game setup) before myself, I have far less success.

Baron Munchausen · #8 June 6th, 2001, 08:20 PM

There's an important difference between Stars! and SE. You can build however many ships PER TURN that you can pay for in Stars!, so it's simple to produce many more ships than your opponent as long as you have the resources. In SE, each space yard produces only ONE ship per turn. You have to resort to units to get mass-production in SE. So, in order to pursue the "barbarian horde" strategy you'd need large numbers of space yard bases, and the maintenance on these might well eat up the advantage of your cheaper ships. Or you need to use units, meaning fighters since sats and WPs cannot move. The difference in cost between a well equipped dreadnought and a LC might well let you stay ahead of the 'high tech' player on otherwise equal terms, though. Just not as far ahead as you would be if you could produce as many ships as you could pay for in a single turn.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 06 June 2001).]

Nitram Draw · #9 June 6th, 2001, 08:43 PM

While you may not be able to produce a horde in one turn if you can produce ships at a significantly faster rate you can deploy hordes. If you mothball the ships after you build them to save costs you can launch a horde at one time.
Carriers can be useful in teh horde tactic but are vulnerable to the loss of the carrier and having the fighters stranded where you don't want them.

Suicide Junkie · #10 June 6th, 2001, 08:50 PM

For a decent barbarian horde strategy, try getting a race with no maintenance.
You can then build ships constantly, and when war does come, you can send thousands to fight.
With a stack of maintenance-free construction bases, you can build at any rate you have the resources to support.

One thing I like, is that you don't have to worry about ships running out of fuel or being crippled. They can take as long as they want to return home, and won't cost you anything. When they do arrive, you get to retrofit and return them to the fleet.

Also, with such large numbers of ships, you can make devastating use of long-reload weapons such as missiles and Null-space, overrunning your enemies in tactical faster than they can cut down your flood of ships.