Bringing Back the Super Combatant

HoneyBadger · #1 January 21st, 2007, 10:41 PM

I'm going to be creating a mod which takes several of the more suitable Pretenders and adds to their ability to fight in a Dom3 environment. Price will be scaled higher to compensate for reasons of balance, but the payoff will be surviveable Pretender-class SCs and hopefully new strategies and fun.

Basically what I'm going to do is take whatever combat qualities the Pretenders I'm going to modify have already, and extend them, in a realistic way. Stat numbers I'm going to leave alone unless I have a good reason to change them, but things like natural weapons, special abilities, resistances, slots, etc. will be modified where I feel it will better serve an SC Pretender.

In some cases, I may or may not have both the "vanilla" or a magic-user version of a given Pretender, alongside the modified SC version.

I'd like to get peoples' thoughts on this, if it's an exciting idea to put SCs back in the game, and any specific ideas for both modifying current Pretenders and adding new SC Pretenders.

So far I don't have a complete list of the Pretenders I'll be modifying, but the partial list (and some ideas) includes:
Destroyer of Worlds-2 extra arms, retouched image, possibly heals afflictions.
Scorpion King-adding armor slot, 1 extra pincer attack, darkvision, heals afflictions.
Wyrm-heals afflictions, extra head (or more), poison breath attack
Ancient Kraken-regeneration 5%, 2 extra attacks, extra misc slot.
Carrion Dragon-immortal, 5% regeneration.
Dagon-not sure yet, possibly 2 extra arms and a retouched image, possibly heals afflictions.

I may possibly create a mod that has additional selections for all appropriate Pretenders wherein at a higher price you could choose an Immortal or an affliction healing version (or both) of most Pretenders.

Let me know what you think.

Wish · #2 January 21st, 2007, 11:22 PM

I think all those chassis can make fine SCs without mods.

Sometimes I think about making seriously overpowered units, that are SCs before even getting equipped.

flying, ethereal, high hp, with regen and healling afflictions, High stats, fire shield, and an AoE weapon of some sort -- maybe even through fear and awe in there.

I had something like that in Dom 2 mocked up - but honestly, it wasn't any fun to play with.

HoneyBadger · #3 January 22nd, 2007, 12:02 AM

It's not to make them overpowered units-in that you have like 30 of them or something, it's to make a given Pretender a potential SC.

Very few Pretenders make good SCs (yes, there's lots of Pretenders who make good thugs and what have you, but put them up against a decent army and they're the main ingredient in god-chowder)

The only ones that currently have a chance to solo without being turned into kibble are the Gorgon, the Ancient Kraken, and the Carrion Dragon-all of which are very tough, and all of which are able to heal afflictions.

I'm not trying to make or have any interest whatsoever in creating units which would somehow "break the game". I'm talking about making units which are decent but underpowered for the conditions of Dom3, and turning them into units you can use (IF you choose such a strategy) as Pretender SCs in the vein of Dom2.

Wish · #4 January 22nd, 2007, 12:17 AM

I dunno man, I have a wished for destroyer of worlds that seems to eat those decent sized armies, (and even an army of devils) without any problem.

I guess I haven't tried it out in MP at all, so that might be a different arena -- but you and I seem to be witnessing a different result from the same chassis.

HoneyBadger · #5 January 22nd, 2007, 12:37 AM

The problem in Dom 3 that the potential SC faces isn't with other potential SCs, it's with the sheer number of units on either side of the battlefield. I wouldn't want to make these SCs more powerful objectively for no good reason as some kind of crazy power-trip. That's why the Dev Gods invented cheat-codes. I'd just like to make chassis which will cost considerably more to purchase, but will give the return of being able to function profitably on the front lines of more than one large battle.

As it stands, yes you can invest a huge amount of time, effort, research, and gems, and turn any decent combat Pretender into an SC-which won't be very useful by the end of the game. I'd like to give the option of purchasing a god chassis which can take out independents on it's own, repeatedly, and allow for quick solo expansion, as a viable strategy and without ending up with a badly crippled, worse than useless Pretender.

I can see a lot of usefulness in concentrating your Nation on a single unit, but why force the entire Nation to be invested, long-term, in such a project when the outcome is only one unit?

HoneyBadger · #6 January 22nd, 2007, 12:52 AM

Destroyer of Worlds isn't a bad chassis, just because it's got 4 arms. It's not great for the price though, since it's basically just a slightly more powerful Nataraja, which would cost 0 unless I'm mistaken-certainly not 125.

It can easily be afflicted, cursed, horror-marked, etc. The downside of the SC happens in MP when your human opponent targets your SC and does nasty long-term damage to it. That's going to happen regardless of how well equipped your SC is.

Making a select number of SCs more powerful against conventional armies is my goal, not against human-run SC-kill-squads.

Wish · #7 January 22nd, 2007, 02:15 AM

and you want them functional out of the box?

I recall that whenever I made a pretender mod and the pretenders could be used like that in early expansion, everyone called them "overpowered"

alexti · #8 January 22nd, 2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

HoneyBadger said:
As it stands, yes you can invest a huge amount of time, effort, research, and gems, and turn any decent combat Pretender into an SC-which won't be very useful by the end of the game. I'd like to give the option of purchasing a god chassis which can take out independents on it's own, repeatedly, and allow for quick solo expansion, as a viable strategy and without ending up with a badly crippled, worse than useless Pretender.

Have you tried GK? It's not even that pricey and pretty useful in the late game for forging and summonning of what otherwise would be inaccessible.

Agrajag · #9 January 22nd, 2007, 02:51 AM

Want to make something powerful?
Give it as many of the following as possible:
Immortal,(True?)Etheral,Regeneration,Awe,Fear,Flyi ng,Lucky,some AoE Shield,Sneaking,Glamour. And there are more

PDF · #10 January 22nd, 2007, 06:28 AM

There was a Dom2 mod making all Pretenders recover from afflictions, I think this is a good idea and enough to avoid having useless pretenders.
Having some even more powerful chassis is prone to unbalance the game with some players able to wipe out others very early, so I'm not sure to want it.