Where are the Civilians?

[Steven-n-Donna]

Hi guys,
While I was playing the other day, I thought to myself, "Something is missing". What I realized was that there are only military ships controled by ME or my ministers. Reminds me of our current presence in space. Am I to assume that trade with other empires happens through magic, or do unseen ships move about the galaxy without my protection.
Trade routes and other civilian ships would greatly increase the deapth of the game.
Another trait i believe you should be aloud to choose when establishing your race is their economic and political model. Give different styles bonuses like the "Scientists, Zeolots....et al" do. Make different styles conflict with each other. Create your basic Capitalist vs. Socialist problems on a galactic scale.
Oh yeah, I don't know who packed my Colony ship, but they sure the hell did a great job by magically fitting 4 million people in that tiny *** ship. Musta been that Honey I shrank the kids tech they forgot to mention.
Expecially for how cheap a colony ship is vs. the size of one to fit that many people into it.
What's your guess on how they fit them in on a massive cargo ship? I'm thinking similar to potatoes in a big room. Or maybe some Voyager style magic fix'n.
I prefer the way the new Stars! Super Nova handles population. Once a colony is established, civilians find their own ways to the colony. Instead of like cattle, could be influenced by their political model. Your basic capitalist government has little countrol of where the population goes aside from troops, while your Soup Nazi Government tells you where and when to go.
Just thinking out loud,
Sorry fo the long topic!

Steve

[dogscoff]

Good post. I've been bleating about population handling for a while now, especially automatic migration. I guess I ought to mail my thoughts to MM somwhen...

I'm also uncomfortable with the huge numbers of people you can so easily move from place to place, but the consequncs to the play balance if it were changed aren't worth thinking about.

I also like your thoughts on that other post thread, about "counting heads" within a ship's crew: This would be a really nice feature, and would give you incentive to look after your ships a little better. Ships with not enough crew would become less and less effective, as would ships with too many crew & not enough crew quarters. Space yard ships would suddenly need loads and loads of crew quarters if they wanted to build ships in deep space, although they could be cryogenically packed in the same way as colonists (ie 5 million pr Kt).
Abandoning / destroying ships in order to merge crews would also add an intresting element to the game.

Unfortunately it would require *huge* hard code changes by MM to implement...

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

[Master Belisarius]

I can understand you views.
But...because SE4 is a game not a simulator, I really don't care about how realistic, is the way to move the population.

[Taqwus]

They're desperately hiding from certain evil people who would not hesitate a moment to obliterate a colony of eight billion people, let alone a stray, helpless ship with mere millions...

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[ZeroAdunn]

Hey, first time poster and I have had some thoughts about population I would like to share

When ever you build a spaceport on a planet it should create a line similar to the lines used in a ships path- maybe of a different color between the new spaceport world and the nearest spaceport world. These would be shipping lanes. When you want to transfere population or cargo between worlds simply hit the transfere button and then in the transfere cargo window there should be an off world option and then you could select any other spaceport world. Then after you have sent whatever you want to send a transport will magicly appear (each planet would have a different number of transport ships depending on it's population at minimun maybe 1 and at max maybe 5 or 10) and begin transporting to wherever you sent cargo. Then it would make the journey to wherever the cargo was headed unload it and make the return journey. It would continue to make trips till all the cargo selected has been moved.

You could also move fighters, satelites, mines, etc in this same way.

Trade between empires would be handled in much the same way. When you enacted a treaty a transport lane would be drawn between the two empires closest spaceport planets. Then every turn a fleet of a certain size (depending on the number of resources being trated) would travel between the two worlds. Every turn another fleet would be sent out.

Ships in orbit around a spaceport world could be given the order "Protect shippping lanes" or something and whenever a transport ship was sent out it would escort it to and from wherever it was going.

Sorry fot the length of the post.

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Captain, I found your pants.

[rdouglass]

quote:

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Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
Then after you have sent whatever you want to send a transport will magicly appear (each planet would have a different number of transport ships depending on it's population at minimun maybe 1 and at max maybe 5 or 10) and begin transporting to wherever you sent cargo. Then it would make the journey to wherever the cargo was headed unload it and make the return journey. It would continue to make trips till all the cargo selected has been moved....

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Sounds a lot like a Minister... However for those micro-management 'masochists' out there, more detail features are a good thing. Of course with the prerequisite ministers and On/Off buttons.....

[geoschmo]

I would be in favor of more detail and realism, as long as it's all automatic. I am micromanged up to here already. I have given up on getting the ministers to work right.

The idea about auto transfer of pop over time from homeworlds to colonies sounds cool. I would prefer it to be invisible.

Computer controlled commercial transports flitting about would be kind of neat too. Make them all automated. I could forbid them to go into certain systems if I want, but not really control where they go. Also they don't really have to do anything visible like transfer cargo. They would just be part of the background. Zipping back and forth between spaceports. If you don't protect them and they get blown up you would take a hit in resource production empire wide. Would make blockades seem more reasonable.

Make them run from enemy ships, and blow up if they take any damage at all.

Give my empire a small economic boost if I kill one of my enemies', and vice versa.

All this would be cool, but please don't give me anything more to do. I have my hands full now.

If I want to move sats or mines, I will still have to build a transport the old way and give it orders.

Geo

[Phoenix-D]

I think automatic population movement without killable transports would be unbalancing and cheesy. Ditto, except moreso, for mines, WPs, and sats.

Phoenix-D

[Droplede]

Add me to the list of micro-management masochists.

I, for one, think that even with intelligence attacks, planet blockades and the occasional transport and colony ship raid it's still too hard to fool with an enemy's supply lines. Even the helpful little invisible merchant fleets that distribute resource points are a little too abstract for me -- I want ways to blow them up and (more importantly) steal them!

More detail! More hard choices! More confusion!

<edit: whoops. typo.>

[This message has been edited by Droplede (edited 01 June 2001).]

[Dracus]

Back in Jan, I posted ideas about the Population.

Check out this link: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/For...ML/000938.html