TG contest and system facilities bug ?

[alasyr]

A while ago there as a post stating that Time Shrines and Sysem robotoid factories stack together (30% from SRF+15% from TS).Well they do if not built on same planet .Also they stack wit themself too (two robotoid factories on two planets make 60%).This might (don't know for sure) apply to other system improvemets facilities as well.It looks like game
(mis)translates "only one facility per system" into "only one system improvement facility per planet" alowing as to bulid time shrine and sys. rob. factory on every planet in system gaining a 45% bonus per planet for that system.This looks like a huge, huge bug.

[Tomgs]

I did build both time shrines on the same planet to test them but the SRF and the Time shrines were in many systems and most were on other planets and that is why I though they stacked that way. Good catch I unintentionally set up a bad experiment and failed to catch the fact that all of them stacked if put on different planets. I wonder if all the system facilities do that?

I had reported this and hopefully it will all be corrected in the patch but by all means report this just to make sure. The fault I reported may not lead to a total fix because I didn't see the whole effect.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 16 February 2001).]

[Nyx]

Well, Tom, Drake, and Geo, as the top players in the contest how bad of a problem do you guys think this is? Should I outlaw it? I know Drake used Time and robot stacking, but I don't really have a problem with that. I do have a problem with system robot facilities on every d@#$ planet in a given system. The contest is essentially a resource race and that looks seriously buggy to me. Fortunately, it's exceptionally easy to catch.

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Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

[Puke]

if the TS and SRF are not designed to work together (regardless of the bug that lets them) then what is the point of the TS? its a special racial tech, one of the religious tree's MAIN advantages since they only get facilities untill they hit the top of their tree and get the talasmans. so is this extra cool racial tech that cost a load of points, but it is not supposed to be as effective as a SRF, and you are not supposed to be able to stack them with each other?

I think you should be able to have one of each but maybe not multiples of each. I wonder if psychic training facils stack too?

[Kimball]

On the same subject, if each planet in a system has a robotoid factory, will a system robotoid factory be a waste of resources? Same thing with citizen data banks and central computer complexes and their system wide couterparts. I have been building planet based facilities, and putting a system facility on one of the planets that has a planet facility already. I haven't checked to see if it works or not, I just assume is does.

[Tomgs]

Well it says right on the Time shrine and the SRF that there can be only one with this effect per system. Since the effects are the same they should not stack. The only advantage the time shrines have is that they are a lot lower on a tech tree so you can get them long before you get the SRF's. I usually build Time Shrines first then scrap them when I have built the SRF's.

The planet facilities and the system facilities are designed to stack so that is no problem. the only things that shouldn't stack are two planet facilities on the same planet (this works now) or two system facilities in the same system (this is bugged). As long as the bugged part isn't done the contest should be fine. And as you say its real easy to catch.

Kimball The system and planet facilities do stack but its hard to see the effects since the system facility additions aren't shown on any one planet. A system facility adds to the total amount in the system and that effect shows up in the total in the Empire, Intell, or Research screen but doesn't show any increase on any specific planet so it looks like there is no effect unless you know what the total should be and add in the system facilities effects.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 16 February 2001).]

[geoschmo]

I don't think it'll be a problem as long as it is easy to catch as you say.

Shouldn't the system robo facil and the various racial system-wide bonus facilities be allowed to stack? They have the same result, but they achive that result by different means. Are we sure that is a bug or is it how it was intended to operate.

Now if you could have two system robo fac's or two time shrines in the same system and have them both work, I would agree that was a bug.

But if I build a System Robo Facility which produces robotic workers for my mines, I should get a bonus. If my race also has the Religous tech ability and I build a time shrine, why shouldn't that also give me a bonus. Unless you think the robo facility means I am replacing all of my non-robotic workers. I don't see it that way though.

In the future I would like to see MM have the planet production numbers reflect the presence of system-wide facilities. It should show up as well in the abbilities display for each planet like population and racial bonuses do now.

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Well it says right on the Time shrine and the SRF that there can be only one with this effect per system.

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Actually it doesn't.

What it says is,

quote:

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Ability 1 Descr := Increases the value of all planets in the system by 1% each year (only 1 facility per system effective).

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Now you could interperet this as one of each facility with this effect, or one of each facility of this type. I prefer the second definition. I think it is more logical.

[raynor]

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
Now you could interperet this as one of each facility with this effect, or one of each facility of this type. I prefer the second definition. I think it is more logical.

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I agree that it is more logical. I had planned to build both types of facilities in my game. But... if you have an SRF in a system, doesn't it give you a warning message when you try to build a TS? The message says: You already have a facility of this type in this system.

To me, that means the developer never intended for you to benefit from multiple SRF's in a system *OR* an SRF and a TS in the same system.

[This message has been edited by raynor (edited 16 February 2001).]

[Drake]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nyx:
I know Drake used Time and robot stacking, but I don't really have a problem with that.

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Actually, I didn't use it. I don't have any time shrines in my game. *shrug* That would've put me at 313M.

The game in most instances doesn't allow facilities of the same TYPE to stack. You aren't supposed to get the benefit from both.

An example of this is the medical lab and gestation vats. If I have gestation vats on a planet, and try to build a medical lab in the same system, I get the warning, "You already have a facility in the system with similiar [sic] system-wide abilities." If you build both, you'll only get the bonus from the best one (gestation vats).

For the specific instance of Time Shrines and System Robotoid Facilities, the game will also warn you about the redundancy of the facility you are building. This clearly indicates to me that they aren't supposed to work together even though they currently are. Otherwise there would be no reason to warn me when I'm adding it to my build queue.

From the wording on the warning, I thought it was clear that only one TYPE of system-wide ability facilities would be allowed per system, and that the issue with time shrines was a bug, and thus should not be allowed.

If you do allow them, it just means that ppl will be forced to take religious. Those that didn't are pretty much screwed....(you did mention we could resubmit a game saved from a previous point, right? I need to redo my Last 5 turns if this isn't disallowed, heh. )

-Drake
(clarity edit)


[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 17 February 2001).]