Knighst of Light mod

[belkot]

I like your mod, but I think that you made most of unit (especially infantry) too cheap - they have very good armour, morale, decent attack and defence skill - so I suggest you should make most of unit more expensive

btw why there are four masters - two on chariot and two on horse?

In general - graphics looks great and I realy like climate of this mod.

good work

[Tricon]

Black Moon Chronicles, right?
Funny, I had the same idea but alas, I lack the skills. Great. Thank you.
I'll try it this weekend.

Now...
How about modding other nations to reflect the other main participans?

(and my brain runs off...... now there was a mediocre but nice pc rts game based on black moon chronicles... mmh....I still have that here somewhere...made by cryo... what code did they use... mmh... this deserves deliberation)

[ February 19, 2004, 14:42: Message edited by: Tricon ]

[Tricon]

Originally posted by belkot:
I like your mod, but I think that you made most of unit (especially infantry) too cheap - they have very good armour, morale, decent attack and defence skill - so I suggest you should make most of unit more expensive

If it is indeed from the black moon chronicles the price of the units somewhat reflects the "theme". However it could unballance the game. Too bad I'm at work, or I could check the mod myself now.....
The units should have decent armor and very high morale (for non magic beings), decent attack but maybe poor defence? High encumberance? Low magic resistance?

[sube]

Hi guys,

a few days ago I submitted a new mod, changing the Marignon people into an order of knights (not my invention, just to be fair - I based them upon a french comic).

I won�t be able to check the forum very often, since I don�t have access to internet easily. But I�ll be able to check the forum from time to time, so any suggestion on how to improve the mod would be really welcome.

I am going to submit a new Version soon (proper leadership values, 1 more mage, maybe a few other things). And I also have an almost ready second mod, changing Ulm into a dwarven kingdom.

[sube]

Black Moon Chronicles, indeed! And I also had the game from cryo... Not too bad, but nothing special either (by the way, if you look for it, I think you can find it at the home of the underdogs website - I got the retail copy but that was a loooongtime ago).

About the unit cost: yes I was thinking about increasing the cost of the basic trooper from 11 to 12. On the other hand, they are already quite resource-expensive, I don�t want them to become unaffordable.

About the graphics: yes I put alternative graphics for some of the units (marshal, masters), but the stats are actually the same. In this way you can choose the commander you like the most, or mix them. Maybe I�ll add some more. The graphics are in general a bit flat, but I�m not that good ad drawing, so probably I�ll leave them as they are.

And if I have time I�d like to make a mod for the other nations of the comic as well (Knights of Justice, Empire and Black Moon), but well, that takes time...

[Dje-la-Bloutre]

I was very happy to see your mod... I'm a big fan of "Les Chroniques de la Lune Noire"

This mod is quite excellent but I think too the troops are a little bit too powerfull or too cheap (I think a little less armor could do it...)

If you plan to put another mage, it shouldn't be too powerfull as it's only a knightly order...
But maybe you could add a Siege Weapon (their is many of them in the light armys in the comic).


Maybe if you have the time you could do mod from the other "nations":
- Black Moon (ahhh the black guards... )
- Empire
- Order of Justice
- Hordes of hell
- and why not the dwarfs and their weaponry...

A "Black Moon Chronicles" mod...
It would be great to play

[Tricon]

Hi Sube. I have tested/played your mod a lot in the Last two days (was sick at home).I love the comic, especially the order of light.

Overall, I'm thrilled that you put this much work into it.

Now here are some minor tweaks and changes that may be worth a try... It's your baby so please diregard whatever you do not like about my suggestions.

1. The chariot masters have the same stats.(As do the marshals btw.) Is this intentional(just for the art?)Because with the regular units you have the cross w/circle as the elite.
2. Since these are elites, you should name the elites.
3.The masters should IMO be sacred. (it is arguable from the comic... but it would most definately fit to a order of light theme)
4.The armor/protection is extensive, but so is the price in resources... The order has the constant problem (in my games so far) that it relies heavily on independants as fodder. This contradicts the comic. While this always happens in Dom2 games it is almost a problem with OoL. No matter what I produce, even the cheapest unit (xbow) I cannot afford more than 5 or 6 of them.
IMO the resource price should decrease for the smaller units by about 5-7. The encumberance by 1 the protection by 2-3 (maybe chain mail shirt instead of full chain... have't done the math yet- this is purely a game ballance thing, as a comic adaptation, your absolutely correct)
5. The (regular)chariot is mighty but overpriced.25/42 is more then enough, IMO. This would include a HP raise to 15 or 16.
6. The mage should have the regular leading abiltity of a mage: 10(see also Nr.11). The same goes for the archpriest (the text states him as old, venerable with no combat training, yet he has the same leading skill as a master?)The cost of these units should be decreased accordingly by about 10-20 gold. BTW is the relatively low morale for the mage intentional?
7. The masters leadership should be increased to 35. The resource costs should be reduced by 10. (I presume the riding master has more resource cost because the horse is armored? Otherwise it doesn't make sense that he's more expensive than a chariot)
8. The Archpriest research ability should be increased to 4 or 5.
9. As Dje la boutre mentioned, another heavy hitter might be in order. My personal favorite would be a siege tower (as in the comics ).The nice thing is that all it's abilitys could be copied with the Dom2 engine... .
10. Considdering the mighty castles/structures and abundant armors/weapons in the comic and game, it would make some sense gamebalance/-engine wise to include a special forger/stonemason unit with earth magic one or two.
11. IF you would add such a "mage/mason" the other mage unit should be toned down a bit, to one fire one random with the cost adjustment to 80/1.


Mmh. All of this sounds kind of negative. Believe my I enjoy your mod. The tweaks go towards ballancing the great theme with the other nations in dom2. As i don't know your reasoning behind some of the issues ... it's almost impossible to be totally fair.


On a side note: OoL is also the best crusader theme in dom2 so far.... this is a rough cut diamond, IMO. Hopefully some of the vets play it and give further ballance-tweak tips.

Two thumbs up!

[Pocus]

Sube,

I really like your mod. Definitively a must see for anyone which read Black Moon Chronicles, or have the RTS game.

I would like to offer some remarks too, taking into account what others have said also:

1 - The Infantry cost is low, but I think its a fair bargain, as the mage part of the empire is rather crappy. It reminds me of Ulm approach of having low cost units (10 gold for a 23 prot HI IIRC), but having un-versatile mages. If you really want to tweak something, just reduce defence stat slightly, but keep the cost. The problem of the OoL is the resources to build armors&weapons, and I like that.

2 - Dont make a cheap, resource-wise, unit. It would circumvate the bottleneck resource, thus leading to a rebalance of some infantries cost. The OoL infantry must be feared, and must be a very good bargain for the cost.

3 - I would had put one of each of the duplicate commander Category (marshal, master) as holy, and one cavalry too. Rise the cost by 50% then.

4 - a siege tower or other heavy hitter (catapult) would be an awesome idea.

5 - the arch priest should be raised to astral 2 IMO, otherwise he is really a mind duel fodder.

I played too your mod in solo plays, and I really enjoyed the feeling it gaves me. Please do other orders, I find your graphics really cool.

Thanks a lot for your contribution.

[PhilD]

I believe the Order, as it is, is pretty strong; the only alternative is that I'm getting much better at this game, and isn't supported by other games I played recently

Compared to Ulm, the Order has access to strong priests, and that IMHO makes a big difference - Ulm has trouble using Sermon of Courage, while an Order of Light army can be accompanied by a level 4 priest for Fanaticism (and two cheap [indie] Astral mages will make the same Smite-capable with a Communion).

The OoL Infantry is comparable to the regular Ulm infantry (not Black Plate): slightly higher resource cost, better stats overall. The gold cost is higher, but the gold cost will never be the limiting factor, unless you're buying lots of mages. The OoL infantry are slightly slower on the battlefield (except compared to some of the 1/5 Black Plate), except the Standard Bearers (who tend to run before the rest of the squad and get slaughtered by the enemy's front line - are they given the standard because they're too stupid to wield normal weapons? ).

The Knights are almost identical to Ulm's Black Knights (1 less HP, 1 less Prot, 2 more MR, 4 more Def, Broadsword instead of Morningstar), but then the Order has the option of the cheaper Horsemen, and the Chariot, which is a fast trampler with good morale (especially with a few surviving standard bearers and availability of high-level priests) and excellent protection.

Overall, I believe the Order has the upper hand on basic Ulm; not having the access to the Forging bonus is more than made up for by the better access to priests, and the higher gold cost of the infantry isn't really relevant.

Still, they're a very enjoyable nation to play

[Tricon]

Originally posted by Pocus:
3 - I would had put one of each of the duplicate commander Category (marshal, master) as holy, and one cavalry too. Rise the cost by 50% then.
5 - the arch priest should be raised to astral 2 IMO, otherwise he is really a mind duel fodder.

Excellent ideas, IMO.
The standard bearer running up front is a bit bothersome.And since he's meant to go with the troops, he should not be the fastest infantry unit on the field.

MAYBE Pocus is right about the "avoid the low cost infantry unit". However I have not yet seen any reason at all to build the OoL crossbow unit(other than roleplaying, that is ). Considering how many fairly decent indie archers are around, combined with the good up front protection of the rgular units, there is just no need.
Do you go with a woodsman archer at about 9/3n with 11 precision or 10/25 crossbow 10 precision one shot every other round even if it has AP? You need the resources for the other units.


How do you other guys go about it in your games?