Beating Organics in Normal Game

[Griffin Cloud]

I know there have been alot of Posts about this but I would like to know a specific something. I started a game with all techs for all players unlocked. Unfortunately I was playing against an organics player and the first thing they did was to open a warp point to my homeworld and send in a dreadnought. Well I had already set up defense (starbase, wplatform, and planet shields) so I built a dreadnought as well while they pounded my other colonies. I was playing temporal tech so I figured "Hey shield and armor skipping weapons!" Yet when I went in to fight them they completely owned me! I don't think I even moved their red bar back 10 places before they wasted me! For some reason the advanced organics weapons were hitting for 200-300 while my most advanced shield/armor skippers were only hitting for 60-120. I still don't get how organics is that powerful? They completely destroyed my whole empire with one dreadnought (except my starbase which had so many seekers on it was ridiculous). Does anyone know how to combat this using temporal tech tree or crystallurgy (my Favorites)???????

Thanks for help,
Griffin Cloud

[Fyron]

Temporal Shifters and Null - Space Projectors have low damage values because they do not need to do a lot of damage. All of those hit points from shielding and armor are wasted against them. However, they do have slow rates of fire. So, in a one on one combat, it is quite possible that the ship armed with regular weapons will win against the ship armed with Temporal Shifters. Temporal Shifters and Null - Space Projectors are more of a support weapon than a good main weapon for your fleets.

[Baron Grazic]

Welcome to the forums.
Personally I would have done the same thing as you, gone for Armor & Shield skipping weapons.
Could it be that you are not using Weapon Mounts?
The difference between a standard weapon and a Heavy weapon on a Dreadnaught can be a lot.
When creating your ships, look at the 'Weapon Mount' button on the top right.

Edit - Dam - IF beat me.

[ March 01, 2004, 01:14: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Griffin Cloud]

I am only playing the normal CD Version of the game and it doesn't come with weapon mounts I don't think? I looked and it only said normal mounts? OH well, I would still like to know how the heck the organics weps were hitting me for 300 each. 7 weapons X 300 each = 2100 dmg each turn lol!

[Baron Grazic]

It sounds like you were building a small ship. Any ship larger than a Light Cruiser will be able to have mounts.
Create a Dreadnaught Hull, and you should have Large & Heavy weapon mounts. Massive Mounts can be built on BaseShips.

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by Griffin Cloud:
I am only playing the normal CD Version of the game and it doesn't come with weapon mounts I don't think? I looked and it only said normal mounts? OH well, I would still like to know how the heck the organics weps were hitting me for 300 each. 7 weapons X 300 each = 2100 dmg each turn lol!

Yes, it most definitely comes with larger mounts and that damage he's delivering sounds about right for a dreadnaught with Heavy mounts on the top level acid weapon. Your temporal shifter should be giving you similar numbers with the heavy mount.

Other factors may be involved like combat sensors and ECM and ship and fleet training. If you don't have these and he does, you'll be lucky to hit him at all.

Good luck and welcome to the Boards. Keep the questions coming; we'll be here.

[Puke]

this is all in the newbie FAQ, which is probalby why no one actually spelled it out yet, but we really ARE helpfull, even if we sometimes pretend not to be. especially me, i pretend not to be alot. which is why you should moderate me with as few stars as possible. anyway:

yes, in the stock game larger ships can have larger mounts, and there is no reason not to use them. really, there's none. even if you cant fit a larger weapon in your remaining space, you can probably rearange your hull so that the space isnt wasted on smaller weapons. You will find the MOUNT button in the top right of the ship design screen. its easy to miss if you're not looking for it, most people miss it.

You can have one combat sensor and one ECM. you should invest in them on all ships, unless religious tech is involved. You can also gain ECM benefits from once piece each of stealth and scattering armor. you should take advantage of this. if you want multiple pieces of those armor for redundancy, thats fine - but i usually only take one of each.

It is also invalueable (unless religion is involved) to take bonuses to attack and defense in your race creation, and to take advantage of both ship and fleet training (which stack).

Regarding organic technology, you will find alot of arguements about it. I tend to favor the stuff, but here is the breakdown: they can build ships faster because they devide costs between minerals and organics. because of this, they build nearly twice as fast. Ships using high level shield technology can have more hitpoints than organic armor, and ships using high level weapons can do more damage than organic weapons - but depending on how you play, the balance is never totally guaranteed.

IF the org player is using organic armor instead of shield, crystaline weapons will eat their lunch. This is really the only time crystaline shines, otherwise it basically sucks. hate to break it to you. Temporal shield skippers blow compared to Null-Space, their advantage is being cheaper to research and thus available sooner.

Organic seekers are the best seekers in the game, and can be overwhelming. A few dedicated PD only ships, along with PD on your mainline warships, should be enough to counter this. Seekers should never win a game, unless they catch the enemy unprepared (i.e. without point defense)

In a defensive scenario, the temporal events predector is one of the most deadly things around. Also, the crystal shield magnifier works wonders on stacks of fighters. When defending, you get to move and shoot first. thus, it is wise to defend your side of a wormhole and wait for the enemy to come through. odds are, you can kill them or cripple them before they can fire.

Good hunting.