Polish OOB 5.5

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

There should be added new SP-AAgun Hibernyt-P - from 2008, with lightly armoured cab, platform (lower sides of gun mounting from sides and rear) and gun's front plate. Maybe armour 1/1/1/ 1/0/0/ 0 ?

...

engineer's reconnaissance carrier TRI Hors, basing on MTLB. Proposed class 122 light support APC (one unit 922 uses this class, but should be removed).
Based upon MT-LB, armed with NSVT AAMG, SD (8 tubes), used from around 1983 until 2020, speed 60 km/h, carry 109. It should swim a bit faster, than MT-LB thanks to hydrojets. Picture: 29508.

...

There could be also possibly created ISM Kroton SP minelet launcher, basing upon MT-LB, used from some 2004 (in small number), picture: 29509 (if it's needed, I can provide more info).

Some photos, so that we know what we're talking about:

Hibneryt-P
http://www.targikielce.pl/index.html...jnych_pancerze

TRI Hors
http://www.armyrecognition.com/polis...dentifica.html

ISM Kroton
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/produc...46&printmode=1

[DRG]

Michal......... Do you see SP minelet launchers in anyone elses OOB???

[Pibwl]

It's only because I saw its picture and read about minelet artillery.

OK, the rest:

Speaking of Mi-24s, more appropriate icon for most of their service is a camouflaged one 3487. Only since several years, refitted helicopters are painted dark green.

Time for Rosomaks:

207 and 681 Rosomak - despite plans, Rosomak turret hasn't been integrated with Spike. Isn't 18+18 ammo for a gun too low number? (it carries 470 rounds; USMC LAV-25 has 30+33 for 25mm gun). It can carry only 8 troops - in any way, not 13 (sections #337 or 338 should fit)

Since 8/2007 Rosomaks (Polish: wolverine) employed in Afghanistan received additional armour plating on hull front and sides and partly on turret sides (photo: http://www.armyrecognition.com/image...O_2008_001.jpg, armour in white: http://www.altair.com.pl/cz-art-814 ). All Rosomaks in the game are uparmoured - in fact only part vehicles should be uparmoured. But I think, that frontal steel armour 12 hull and 9 turret is an overkill - the new armour is meant to be proof against 14.5mm (pen=3), level IV STANAG 4569. And I'm not sure, if Heat armour, especially side one (10, comparing to steel 4) is justified. All uparmoured Rosomaks can't swim.

(Polish chief of staff claimed, that new armour plating is meant also to protect forward portion against RPG-7, but I'm not sure if he knew what he was talking about... Armour 15 shouldn't stop RPG-7 anyway. On the other hand, there were cases, when Rosomaks survived RPG shots - without closer details, where and if they were penetrating).

So, 207 and 681 should be two units:
- Rosomak with lighter armour (typical for wheeled APC of that class, like LAV-25 or Pandur? - some 4/3/2), available 1/105-120.
- Rosomak M1, with heavy armour (but maybe not that heavy), available from 8/07, without swimming ability.

All standard Rosomaks are plain green 3541, on all operation theatres (maybe apart from a winter one) - they aren't used in a desert. Rosomaks M1, used in Afghanistan, should be also green until end of 2009 - only then the main staff allowed to paint them sand Brown and green camo 3543 isn't used.

From around 7/10 there was a new model introduced, with Qinetiq RPGnet side and rear screens (according to http://gdziewojsko.wordpress.com/woz...e/kto-rosomak/ , named Rosomak M1M) http://www.altair.com.pl/start-4555


208 Rosomak 1 - in fact, Rosomak 1 APC program was abandoned (after several years of trials different MG-armed unmanned turrets). But two models of a simple protected ring weapon mounting (with open roof), were developed instead. They have no special FC, nor RF, nor stabilizer. This unit can be changed to Rosomak M3, with heavy ring mounting (OSS-D) and additional armour, used from mid-2008. It should be sand 3569 (or plain green 3567)

It needs date correction of formations using 217 MRV APC class.

672, 673 Rosomak 1 - as above - they can be Rosomak M3 variants, without FC, RF, stabilizer and swimming ability. Armament of 40mm GL is correct (of course, Mk19 one, but this is the only model used).

Also Rosomak M3 from around 7/10 started to be fitted with side screens (assumed designation: Rosomak M3M)


There should be created also a second model of Rosomak, with OSS-M protected ring mounting (unnamed - I suggest Rosomak OSS-M). It should have light armour and swimming ability, used from mid-2008. Icon: plain green 3567. Two units should be created, with 12.7mm NSVT AAMG or 40mm AGL Mk19 (variant with 7.62mm PK can be omitted IMO). It has no SD.


680 Rosomak 2 - planned variant with Spike (and possibly new unmanned turret). It should be available from some 114. Vehicles probably will have no additional armour, but retain swimming ability (rather used for country defence, than for missions). Second unit with additional armour could be created anyway. Icon: 3548 plain green.

835 Rosomak R - 6-wheeled Rosomak is sure not used, most probably abandoned at all.
In formation 342 MRV Rec Sec it can be replaced with normal 30-mm armed Rosomak APC.

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Rest:

232 Ammo Truck - better picture is 29388 - Polish modern Jelcz.

236 WZT-1 - as a standard, it has no dozer - this is ARV, not engineer tank. Useless IMO.

237 WZT-2 - commissioned in 1979 (now 1/78) [Poligon 5/2010]

238 WZT-3 - commissioned in 1989 (now 1/105) [Poligon 5/2010 and others]. Armour of this ARRV should be definitely no better, than basic T-72M tank (#16), if not worse. AAMG should be 017 NSVT. Full name (rarely used though) is WZT-3 Bizon. Correct picture is 29531 (confused with MID). It might have 3 or 4 SD (now 2) - it has 12 tubes.

239 IWT - only 5 prototypes were made around 1976 [Poligon 5/2010] and used for a short time. Full name is IWT Klon. Might be removed - or made available until end of 1980s at best, with radio 1 or 3.

240 MID (engineer tank) - armour should be definitely no better, than basic T-72M tank (#16), if not worse. AAMG should be 017 NSVT. Correct picture is 29383 (confused with WZT-3). Full name (rarely used) is MID Bizon-S. Used in limited numbers from 1998 or even earlier (1/08) - should have radio 91 [Raport 10/98]
In a free time, there could be created new icon for MID and future WZT-4, with a crane on the right.

BTW: MID-M variant, with .50 AAMG, should be also used by Malaysia from 2009.

241 T-34/85 WPT (ammo carrier) - it was ARRV, not supposed as ammo carrier, and without much room for ammo. Anyway, proper name is WPT-34 and they were produced only from mid-60s (now: 1/50) [Poligon 5/2010]. To be removed IMO - useless.

243 Headquarters - should be rather armed with general issue 008 rifle, not SMG - and be available until 120 (or until next unit)

244 Headquarters - wz.89 Onyks SMG wasn't adopted to service. Should be armed with general issue 029 AKM(S) rifle, and be available from some 1965 (now: 1/90).

245 Headquarters - it should have general issue 028 Beryl rifle - Beryl SMG wasn't widely adopted.

249 Crew - better picture is 14249 (TT, used until 1970s, instead of some German one)

280 Formoza Navy SF - in fact, frogmen special unit, nicknamed Formoza (later it became an official name), was created in 1976. First unit (might be this one) should use ordinary 029 AKM(S) rifle, especially, that Onyks SMG wasn't adopted.

283 Formoza Navy SF - wz.2003 LMG wasn't commissioned - it was to be a Polish equivalent of Minimi. In fact, redundant unit because of 282. Wz.2003 LMG might be replaced in weapons file with Minimi Para, used by special forces, but I don't know if it makes sense, considering its narrow usage. In that case, in other units wz.2003 LMG should be replaced with 16 UKM-2000 LMG

290 Special Forces - early Special Forces would sure use 006 SMG instead of a bolt rifle. RPG-2 was used only from 1953 - earlier there were grenades only. Next unit 291 could be made available from 1953, and P-27 Pancerovka (briefly used) should be replaced with RPG-2

300 Rifle Section - Panzerfaust were very scarse, not used in infantry sections [Poligon 2/2011]. Should be replaced with AT grenades.

305 Cavalry Section - primary armament should be probably PPSh SMG #09, not LMG I don't think, that cavalry sections carried 7-feet-long PTRD on horses... (AT grenades rather)

314, 315 Mech Rifle Sec - P-27 should be replaced with standard RPG-2.

317 Rifle Section - it seems improbable, that in 55-79 there would exist regular infantry sections without LMG (there were plenty of them, especially from beginning of 1950s.)

329 Rifle Section - AFAIK in 1980-99 there doesn't exist regular infantry without LMG in section. In all units 328-331 there should be 013 PKM LMG.

336 Rifle Section - definitely there doesn't exist in 100-120 regular infantry without LMG in a section. In all units 325-338 there should be 016 UKM-2000 LMG.

I have no time now to check precisely structure of infantry platoons in the game, but sections without LMG should be definitely wiped out.

360 Naval Infantry - was created in 1951 (now 1/55) [Raport 8/07] - needs change in formation.

365 Pe-2 Peszka - more precise name is Pe-2FT Peszka (though Peszka is informal and might be left out). Ithas too much load - it could carry 10x 100 kg OR 4x250 bombs (now: 6x100, 4x250) - max 1000 kg.
It could be fighter-bomber as well - in fact it was a dive bomber. It would have 1x #175 12.7mm UBS and 1x #174 7.62mm then.

366, 367 Il-28 - delivered in 10/52 (operational from some 1/53), used only until 77. Needs change of formation's last date.

368, 374 Su-20MK - name was just Su-20 (Su-17MK was Russian designation). Withdrawn in 2/97. Proper picture of the Polish Su-20 is 29126 (now it's Su-22)

376 B10 RCL HE - used from 1/55 (1/50) until 1980s (12/99)

378 SPG9 RCL HE - apparently still in service, possibly until 120 (12/94). Better rifle is 029 AKM(S)

380 82mm Vasilek - it's a detail, but better icon seems 54.

400 White Scout Car - PTRD ATR might have been used on some vehicles during the war, but it was withdrawn from the Polish service by 1948 (see #370). Most probable weapon is just one DT AAMG - DShK was quite bulky weapon and it didn't automatically replace .50 Browning on vehicles.

401 BA-64 in 12/54 there were 97 BA-64 in inventory - I doubt if they were withdrawn that month. A weapon had high elevation - #242 AAMG could be more approproiate (for all countries). Most have no radio.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

400 White Scout Car - PTRD ATR might have been used on some vehicles during the war, but it was withdrawn from the Polish service by 1948 (see #370). Most probable weapon is just one DT AAMG - DShK was quite bulky weapon and it didn't automatically replace .50 Browning on vehicles.

401 BA-64 in 12/54 there were 97 BA-64 in inventory - I doubt if they were withdrawn that month. A weapon had high elevation - #242 AAMG could be more approproiate (for all countries). Most have no radio.

400 White scout car - PTRD definitely wasn't vehicle's armament. I think I've seen one photo of a Soviet vehicle with PTRD, but anyway, it wasn't a fixed weapon, only carried by the crew (most Soviet photos shows original American MGs). It's hard to say, what armament Polish vehicles had. They were given by the Soviets during the war and initially they sure had original .50 and .30 MGs - the question is, whether they were replaced with something more typical before withdrawal. If so, it would rather be DT AAMG only.
There were used few vehicles in Poland after the war (4 are known), and most probably 12/50 is closer to real ending date (now 12/54). Carry capacity should be 106 (108) (enough for a scout section).

401 BA-64 - withdrawn by the end of 1955 (12/54).

397 Mk 1 - pretty OK.

398 SPW 251/10a - I believe, that armament should be DT AAMG only, and it should be renamed to ordinary SdKfz 251/1. There could be few vehicles with tapering bore SpzB captured and used in combat during the war (two are known - although according to newer source, they were SdKfz-250/11). But it is doubtful, if they were used with such unique armament after the war (these two vehicles are known to be used until autumn 1945). Most captured SdKfz-251, used after the war, were sure MG-armed (if they had any fixed weapon at all), especially, that they were used to anti-partisan duties. They were not numerous BTW - probably no more, than dozen. Information on this subject is unfortunately scarce.
They were used used at least until some 1951 (now 12/48) by internal security units (fighting against Ukrainian nationalists). Crew should be 2 and capacity 110 or 111. Better picture (and without German crosses) is 29092.

There's no information how they were named - probably not under German military designation (which might have been not known anyway). IMHO "Hanomag Hkl 6p" name would be probable, from manufacturer's plates.

I think, that this vehicle (along with M2 halftracks, mentioned further), should be classified as halftrack APC rather - new formations of 1 halftrack APC or 2 or 4 APCs should be created, until some 1958 (to be utilized according to player needs).

399 SPW 250/10 - usage of SdKfz 250 post-war isn't known, though it's probable in internal security forces - maybe even until end of 1949-50.
MG armament is more probable, though 37mm gun can't be excluded (there is one wartime photo - 29095 - of such gun-armed vehicle, used by the Poles). Carry capacity should be 104 (106) (enough for a scout section).
IMHO more probable name might be Demag D7p

724 M3A1 - in fact, I can't see substantial differences from 400 White Scout Car. It's the same vehicle - one is redundant.

There should be added instead M2 Halftrack - a limited number used as APC by internal security forces until end of 1950s (some 1958) (along with SU-57 and M17 SP-guns with removed armament). Armament might be DT AAMG.

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

There should be added instead M2 Halftrack - a limited number used as APC by internal security forces until end of 1950s (some 1958) (along with SU-57 and M17 SP-guns with removed armament). Armament might be DT AAMG.

It should be rather named just Halftrack, with carry capacity 111 or so (the Soviets received M2, M5 and M9).

Michal

[Pibwl]

Closing to an end:

404 BRM-1D - correct Polish designation of Russian BRM-1K is BWR-1D. Ammunition for gun should probably be redistributed (some 10 HE, 10 Heat). It has 6-tube SD (now:0). Vision and RF should be higher - it's equipped with GSR and laser RF. Crew is 4 (2) and carry is only 2 (112) - could be 3+3 to carry a scout section. Radio should be 91 (less popular, than BRDM-2). Better icon is 7460 (BMP-2) - it has similar larger two-men turret (winter 7465, desert 1707). [source: nTW 1/2001, Tekhnika i Vooruzhenie 4/2001]

There should be also added BWR-1S Svatava (Czech BPzV) - same data, but icon of ordinary BMP-1 (3474 camo, 1703 winter, 1698 desert). Ammo: 76 (probably half HE and Heat), added #145 Malutka with 7 missiles. Crew/carry 3+3. Used from some 1991.


405, 406 MT-LB/120, MT-LB Vasilek - there weren't any SP-mortars used by the Polish Army so far.

410 BTR-40 - apparently this one should be class Scout vehicle (class Gun APC - identical unit is #51). Should be used until some 1965 (now: 12/60) (especially, that BRDM-1 should be available from 1963 and it would make a gap)

411 BRDM-1 (scout veh.) - only armament should be SGMB AAMG (as unit #52). Better name is just BRDM. Used from 1963 (now: 1/61) [Poligon 3/2010] until no later, than some 1985 (12/90)

412 BRDM-2 (Scout veh.) - used from 1966 until now - I guess until 1/115 at least (now: 1/67-12/105) [Poligon 3/2010].
Soviet BRDM-2s in that period (#698, 699) have vision 15 (this one 20). In fact, it has no night gun sights at all [confirmed in Raport 9/2010], maybe only driver's IR vision.


414 IS-IIm1944 - correct name is just IS-2 (IS-2m eventually). "1944" wasn't official and is redundant. Ammo was 14/14, according to J. Kajetanowicz's book (now 8/20).

417 TOPAS-2AP - reportedly used until 1994 (12/93). Correct pic 29085

Formation #85 needs change of last date according to this unit - and first date: 1963 according to my suggestions on unit 054 OT-62 (TOPAS). I've suggested before to create naval infantry formations in 1963-1991, with Heavy amphibs.

703 Marynarka TOPAS - this unit is redundant - same as unit above, with different icon. Name makes no sense (Navy Topas) - TOPAS APC weren't used by the Navy, and all were used by landing units.

420 T-70m - there was no "m" used in practice (theoretically it was T-70M version, introduced soon after production's beginning). Withdrawn from the Polish Army in 5/49 (now:12/55) [Poligon 3/2010] (needs change in formation 66 as last unit)

421 T-60 - only 3 vehicles used for training - and not clear, if used after 1945. To be removed IMO.

423 RBS-23 SAM - fiction. To be removed.

425 Lisunov Li-2 - considering, that first Polish paratroop units were created in 1959, it's better to replace it with more modern Il-14T, used for this purpose in Poland (540 from Russian OOB, icon 4578) - until mid-70s. Polish picture is 29082.

426 Antonov An-26 - introduced in 1972 (now 1/68). It should be just An-26 (designer names weren't officially used as a part of name of Soviet aircraft)

427 Antonov An-26 - withdrawn in 1/109 (12/120)

430 BTR-40u - used from 1/55 until no later, than mid-70s (1/53-12/99). Icon should be open 2927

432 GAZ Jeep - correct pic is 41063 (UAZ in fact)

433, 434 UAZ-69 Trzmiel - first date 1/60 is impossible, since it was commissioned in the USSR in 8/60 (http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/T...R/PturR003.htm ). Realistic earliest date will be some 1962. Same date for #030 BRDM-1 Trzmiel and 082 formation.

Besides, it should be GAZ-69 Trzmiel, and it was used apparently in small numbers (radio 91 - basic was BRDM-mounted) - no later, than until mid-70s. One unit should be enough. It should have no armour at all.

439 Rys-Azalia AOP - Ryś wasn't introduced so far. Besides, Azalia wouldn't be FO vehicle, but artillery command vehicle.

440 BWP-2 - better icon is camouflaged 1712 (only before sale they were repainted green) [Poligon 6/2010]. Withdrawn already in mid-94 (12/94). It should have SD 2 (1) - 6 tubes.


445 Ski Sniper - more proper pic is 41019 (Mosin), instead of some rifle unused in Poland.

448 Lowcza-3 AOP - this isn't FO vehicle, but AA unit's command vehicle.

450 Ski Scouts - RPG-2 wasn't used that early - should be AT grenades.

451 Ski Scouts - P-27 wasn't widely used - better to be replaced with 015 RPG-2.

452 Ski Scouts - definitely main weapon would be general issue 008 AK rifle, not SMG, especially PM63.

453 Ski Scouts - wz.89 Onyks wasn't adopted. Should be just 029 AKM(S) rifle.

455 SKOT-1A AOP - proper designation of artillery command vehicle is SKOT R-2AM - but it's used only from 1986 [Polish Military Equipment] (now: 1/65). Not clear, if it's AOP vehicle though.

465 Ski Riflemen - Carl Gustaf is very rare weapon, not used in sections. Should be just RPG-7 or its variant.

473 Para Engineers - Onyks SMG should be replaced with Tantal rifle 007.

477, 478 PKMS MMG [2] - correct pic is 45377. Later one should be used until 120 (won't be wiped out)

479 UKM MMG [2] - pic as above

482 Spike ATGM (para) - crew is 3 (now: 2) (it's sure needed to carry launcher and 4 missiles)

483, 484 Factoria ATGM (para) - Faktoria was never used in Poland. To be removed.

485 B10 Recoilless (para-RR) - used only in around 1955-1979 (see unit #68) (now 55-99). Secondary weapon should be 008 AKM or 006 SMG. Standard crew was 3 men (like unit 68)

Date change might interfere with form. 267 Para Co [A] - but the paras were used in Poland from 1959 anyway.

486 SPG9 Recoilless (para-RR) - apparently still in service in 2009 - possibly until 120 (12/94). According to some sources, used from 1968 (now 71). Standard crew is 4 men (now 2) - I don't think that the paras would differ.

Standard SPG-9 had vision=0 - there was version SPG-9N with IR sights.

487 C Gustaf RCL - used by airmobile forces only from 2001 (comment for unit 223)

488, 489 Malutka-2 ATGM - definitely not used.

490 Para Fagot ATGM - rifle should be changed to 007 wz.88 - wz.89 Onyks wasn't adopted.

495-499 Abn Observer - maybe a better name would be Para Observer? I had to guess what is "Abn".

495 Abn Observer (50-59) - first Polish paratroop units were created in 1959 only. Anyway, it should have 006 SMG instead of bolt rifle.

496 Abn Observer (60-89) - if the unit above is removed, it should be available from 6/59 (creation of Polish paratroop division) or 1/60.
Possibly better armament for a para fwd observer is 234 SMG

497 Abn Observer - wz.89 Onyks should be changed to 007 wz.88

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Mortars...

507 60mm Mortar Sec - there weren't any 60 mm mortars in Poland before 2001 - so it should be removed (see below).

508 60mm Mortar Sec - introduced only in 2001 (now 1/70) [http://www.militarium.net/viewart.php?aid=173 and other sorces].
It would need changes in formations 314 and 270. Maybe 270 should be available from 2001, and ending date of 269 should be extended.
According to Polish MoD page, standard unit of ammo is 40 (now 60).
82mm mortars were earlier used by the Polish paras (weight 56 kg), but I don't know in what formations.

As for weapon #030 60mm LM-60D Mtr - according to MoD page and other Polish sources max range is only 2329 m (47) - now: 60.

511 82mm Mortar Sec - crew's weapon in this period should be 06 SMG instead of bolt rifle (earlier it would be probable as well)

513 82mm Mortar Sec - crew's weapon should be Beryl rifle (028) instead of Beryl SMG (limited use).

515 2x120mm Mortars - might as well be armed with #42 120mm M43 Mtr - both were used from the beginning, and have essentially the same specs. Weapon #246 PM obr38 is redundant then (it has too small min. range (3) - it should be 450-460m, just like #42). Better picture is 29425 - current is some Western mortar with integral wheels.

516 2x120mm Mortars - as above. Crew's weapon in this period should be 06 SMG instead of bolt rifle (earlier it would be probable as well)

517 2x120mm Mortars - standard crew's weapon in this period should be general issue AKMS (029), not SMG. Better picture is 29425. It should be used until 115-120 - there are no newer mortars as for now (now: 12/99)

520 2x160mm Mortars - used only from 1951 (1/46), according to J. Kajetanowicz. Crew's weapon should be 06 SMG in that period.

It would need changes in form. 209 - first date 1951, last - 1979? (see below)

521 2x160mm Mortars - crew's weapon should be 06 SMG

523 2x160mm Mortars - they sure weren't used in that period (90-96) - withdrawn well before this date, but I have no closer info. Probably late 1970s.

525 2x120mm Mortars - there are no new 120mm mortars as for now - possible date is 2013 (there is a new mortar M120 developed http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSW_M120 but not produced so far). Icon should be 67, pic - 29425.

Weapon 164 120mm M120 Mtr has too small min range (4) - it should be 9-10 (480 m)

527 120mmM43 Mortar - standard crew's weapon is general issue AKMS (029), not SMG (what is confirmed by photos). Picture should be 29425 (now it's 160mm).

528 120mmM43 Mortar - crew's weapon should be Beryl rifle (028) instead of limited issue Beryl SMG. It should be available until 115 at least (now 12/99). Picture should be 29425 (now it's 160mm).

529 120mmM120 Mort - there are no new 120mm mortars as for now - see notes for #525 - possible date 2013.

There could be added 120mm 2B11 mortar (weapon no 44) used in limited quantity (radio 91) from 1984. Secondary weapon should be AKMS (29), crew 6 men.

533 Observer Team - redundant unit - Onyks SMG wasn't used.

Michal

[Pibwl]

230 Ammo truck - icon of early ammo truck should be eg. 3026, with long nose.

540 76.2mm obr27 IG - not used in Poland. It should be 76.2mm AP-43 IG in fact (Soviet obr.1943). Picture: 29438. Withdrawn by 1954 (now: 12/49)

Weapon 236 should be changed to AP-43 or M.43 gun - range 4200 m only.

542 Komsolets - never used in Poland - should be changed to Ja-12 tractor

Specifications would be similar, but speed up to 38 km/h, picture - 29395, some trucklike icon, used 1946 - mid-1960s.

It's worth to add also tractors:
- Polish built Mazur D-350 - specifications similar, speed up to 53 km/h, picture - 29390, some trucklike icon, used 1961 - mid-80s?
- ATS-59 - unit 342 from Finland's OOB (though it's worth to find other icon with truck long nose), used from 1965?-120.

543 Truck - better picture is 29170 Ural truck - 4x2 trucks like 11067 weren't used in Poland, especially as artillery tractors. Better icon, with long nose, is 3026,

550 SU-57 - correct picture is 29041 (current one is Israeli improvised vehicle). There were few vehicles left after the war (probably 5), and most probably, as SP-guns they were used no longer, than some 1948, especially, that they fired not typical American ammo. Magnuski wrote, that "some" vehicles were converted to ordinary halftrack APC (used by internal security forces), but I think, that considering their small number and ammo issue, all were converted, or at least they weren't operational as SP-guns.

551 85mm AT-Gun - standard weapon of gunners in that period was AKMS rifle (#29), not SMG.

553 BRDM-2 Konkurs - in fact, there shouldn't be difference from unit 34. They differ in radio, but both are equally rare. See comments for unit 34. If we keep unit 34 only, it should be available until 120.

554 85mm AT-Gun+ - crew's weapon as 551. Maybe better name would be "85mm AT-Gun (N)" (N for night) - the gun with night sights was designated D-44N.

Night vision for 85mm gun was introduced in mid-60s (now it's 1/70) - maybe there should be created such earlier unit, with weapon like unit #82.

562 SA-4 Ganef - was to be withdrawn in 6/111 (now 12/120) [Raport 05/2011]. Proper name is 2K11 Krug

564, 569 SA-3 Neva SC - should be S-125 Newa-SC (Polish modernization)

584 PILO Dzik - precisely, Dzik 2 (PILO abbreviation is not used commonly - it means Intervention Vehicle Lightly Armoured or something like this, Dzik means wild boar). Used from 8/105 at best (now 1/105) [nTW 7/2005]

586 Jenot - prototype only, with little chance to be produced.

590 Lockheed C-130K - there are used only C-130E, first delivered in 3/09 (now 1/03) (plans to buy C-130K were abandoned) [nTW 4/09]

591 CASA 295 - precisely CASA C-295M. First delivered in 8/03 (now 1/03). It can carry 73 passengers, BUT only 46 paratroops (now carry=178) [nTW 4/09]

608 Osa AMRAAM - science-fiction as for now

609 SA-8 Osa Sting, 610 SA-8 Osa-AKM - in fact, both should be the same, but I don't know which data is closer to truth - maybe radar 110. Correct name is Osa-AKM-P1 (aka Zadlo, export name Sting). Starting date 1/105 is better. It also received laser RF (I don't know if there's a use in SP-SAM, but it has RF 8 now).

611 Loara SP-SAM - in plans only, with slight chance even to reach prototype stage.

612 Poprad - starting date should be mid-2011 (1/105). New chassis Zubr-P is lightly armoured (survivability will be more than 1) - see photo http://www.magnum-x.pl/index.php?opt...id=4&Itemid=12
It has laser RF and some FC system. It should use final version of Grom missiles (see comments for 205 Grom team). Speed is sure more, than 20, but I found no specific data (some 80-90 km/h at least).

613 Irbis-Poprad - abandoned. I don't recall even a prototype. All Poprads will be lightly armoured (see above)

Michal

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

With a C3 P10 the Patria AMV/Polish ROSOMAK (WOLVERINE) is a very capable APC. The report of the RPG-7 survivability appear to true, I've found several refs to support one was hit in Afghanistan in 2008 three times by RPG-7's, survived, returned fire and returned to base on it's own power the first ref also eludes to this, it should be noted there are a handful of other similar reports of the same type with less hits. The SPIKE-LR version does appear to be stalled and does carry a standard ring mounted 12.7mm but the Polish source below also indicates it carries "ppk two sections of SPIKE-LR on board" (MANPADS?). Majority of 12.7mm systems appear to be ROWS as ELBIT won a huge contract to supply them in particular to the M1 versions from the source below after ref one. Hopefully all refs after number one stay in the translated mode as the site offers an English version option.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/patria_amv.htm
http://www.altair.com.pl/start-4555
http://www.altair.com.pl/start-5063
http://www.armyrecognition.com/italy...fications.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/2008_...countries.html

With the last ref under the UAE 1/2 way down the article as of 2/2008 it was the ONLY vehicle of it's type to pass the ARMSCOR very demanding tests. Much as I hate over protected vehicles like ARJUN which was by accident, I hate to arbitrarily see the protection of one be reduced without some further research.

And an update on the ANDERS 120mm. ANDERS is still a developmental vehicle their is some speculation the Philippine Government might be interested in the 120mm or 105mm versions with an ATGW.
http://www.altair.com.pl/start-5247

Regards,
Pat