First Blood - Newbie game - Finished - Rotarr/Nightfall/Sephorin win!

[mockingbird]

With all due respect, I would like to point that accusing another player of lying and bullying is, well, not very friendly.

I have previously played with some of the other players in this game and enjoyed courteous and cordial relationships with them.

There is a great deal of mystery on my part as to why an attempt to negotiate borders and arrange a non-aggression pact has inspired such ill will.

[MartinTrouman]

... sounds like we have our first war here in our little world.

But I agree... there should be high friendliness factor in these introduction games.


edit: sent before mockingbirds reply...
there seems to have been communication breakdown... Let us know if you agree on where the diplomacy went evil... maybe we can learn something

[mockingbird]

Mockingbird's summary view of a diplomacy gone weirdly wrong follows.

Nightfall: Hi! I'm concerned that you're advancing towards our territory.

Me: Don't worry, I'm not trying to be aggressive. But I would feel better if our border were at a strategic choke point. I will of course offer compensation for any territory you give up.

Nightfall: No, you should give up a province instead. I'll give you a token payment for it.

Me: I don't want to give up the province. How about a one-for-one province swap instead to make for better borders?

Nightfall: Your proposal makes no sense. You're obviously out to get me and will invade next turn.

Me: ???

[turn happens, I do not in fact invade]

Nightfall: You're out to get me, and I think I will have to wage war to defend myself.

Me: ??? ... Okay, how about we just settle for the border we have now? I'm happy to sign a peace treaty and leave it at that. Or will you have war between us? It's your choice.

Nightfall: You're a liar and a bully!

Me: ???

End result: Mockingbird is very confused

[mockingbird]

Okay, in the interest of moving the game forward I'm going to assume that Nightfall does in fact want peace and will submit my turn shortly.

I can only hope that Nightfall doesn't turn around and throw that gesture of good will in my face by invading me.

[cwkjc]

I don't have time to read now, maybe tomorrow....

I thought the game would be hosted, and i checked it.

Waiting for 2h files so it had hosted no ?
but i've received nothing (maybe i've deleted the mail, but it doesn't sound familar to me)

OK i've received it !!!!!

[Nightfall]

Wow your delusional...

Summary of the actual conversation...

Me: I see that you have just invaded an, admitted neutral, province under my dominion, please do no advance any further into my dominion.

mockingbird: (Ignores Nightfall and moves further in) By the way I expect you to give up the best 2 provinces you've managed to take so far so I can have a full quarter of the map.

Me: How about you just cede the one province I already asked you not to take and we can have a peacefull border. I'll even compensate you.

I honestly don't know whether my offer of compensation was reasonable or not, apparently mockingbird doesn't think so, but gave me no indication what would be reasonable.

mockingbird: No that will leave me disconnected (A blatant lie). Give me one or both of your provinces.

Me: How could that leave you disconnected??? Perhaps you misunderstood my offer. (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.)

mockingbird: Since you won't give me both your best provinces, I'll have to have one if you want a peacefull border. I may be willing to make a swap instead which is nothing but bad for you.

Me: FFS, I've got a crap starting position here, and your income is over double mine, with far more growth coming, please throw me a tiny bone.

mockingbird: Either give me a NAP 3 or I attack you immeadiately.

Note that at this point strategically my best option is to say I agree to the NAP and then break it within the next 2 turns, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that.

Sorry to bother everyone, and I would like to make it clear that I don't think mockingbird has done anything wrong, he hasn't, he is just playing the game.

I understand the point is to try to win, my only real point is that if you're going to play in the newbie game you may want to be just a little less full on with the actual newbies.

I'll get back in my box now...

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

Okay, in the interest of moving the game forward I'm going to assume that Nightfall does in fact want peace and will submit my turn shortly.

I can only hope that Nightfall doesn't turn around and throw that gesture of good will in my face by invading me.

Oh it's on... but I will not attack you this turn in order to give you the opportunity to either get back into position or try some real negotiation, rather than just trying to push me around. Up to you...

[Valerius]

I'm not sure if this will help, but I'll just mention a couple of thoughts regarding expansion.

Whenever I expand I'm always looking for choke points that I can use to build a wall around my territories. I can always go back and take other indie provinces inside that wall later. At the same time I try to be reasonable - if you get greedy and box people in and they have no direction in which to expand they have little to lose by attacking you. By and large I think early wars are bad for both parties. Assuming equal skill, you will drain each other's strength while other nations build up.

But in the end this is a war game and sometimes two parties don't see eye-to-eye and end up fighting sooner rather than later (eventually *everyone* fights - well, unless late game micro beats them down and they call it quits ). As far as having a friendly game I would just request that it not get personal. It can help if you try to keep in character and attack the nation, not the player.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Valerius

At the same time I try to be reasonable - if you get greedy and box people in and they have no direction in which to expand they have little to lose by attacking you. By and large I think early wars are bad for both parties. Assuming equal skill, you will drain each other's strength while other nations build up.

This is exactly what I tried to explain privately, you just put it much more eloquantly than me. Although everyone else is almost certainly more skillfull than me, even an average opponent can still drain you of resources.

[cwkjc]

Nightfall, as a first MP game you are served !

Welcome and thanks again to sub TaoCuathon

Maybe Pythium is more experienced (a great early expansion), but be sure that most of us are newbies, and that's the reason i've joined this game, don't think you're less skillfull than others