Newbish question

[Wick]

Click on a leader's command, select Construct Building -> Build Temple.

[Loren]

GrudgeBringer said:
in a Game played as EA VAN I see where for every 4 (or 5) Temples my Dominion Max can go up one.

But I don't seem to be able to build the temple Building itself.

By taking a enemy fortress or a province do I get a 'Temple' or are temples destroyed with conquest?

Temples can only be built by commanders with holy levels, just like labs can only be built by commanders with magic levels.

[GrudgeBringer]

Another question concerning PD and armies in general.

Does PD in a province get charged only one time when you add it or does it have 'upkeep'?

If I understand it correctly 20 PD is the same as 60 men on the ground, and if you supplement that with say 20 indie archers....sounds like a pretty solid defense agianst teleporting smaller armies and Mages. So why wouldn't I want a 20 PD in EVERY province IF it has no upkeep?

Also I suspect regular and Sacred troops DO have upkeep but I must be missing where that cost is shown.

Any help would be appreciated...

Thanks!!

[MaxWilson]

You only pay for it once, unless the enemy conquers the province. No upkeep. You have the right attitude towards PD, which is that you supplement it with "real" troops and use the PD as blockers/chaff. (Note that PD gets replenished even between battles, if multiple enemies attack in one turn.)

One down side to PD is that it's not mobile: 10 provinces with 20 PD each is probably the same price as a 200-man army that you could use to attack, or mass all in one place to defend. Also, you can't script PD to Hold And Attack. This particularly matters if you use army buffs like "Strength of Giants" or "Legions of Steel." Similarly, you can't use PD to guard your commands. Also, since PD is broken up into several smaller squads it often breaks more easily than one big squad would--although this depends on your nation (nations with low-morale PD suffer more). Having half your army take off running after taking four casualties (out of 40 men) is rubbish.

And of course, the final reason you might not want 20 PD in every province... it costs 210 gold. If you're fighting a human, that's an extra 210 gold you have to pay every time you (re-)take a province. If you're fighting against the computer, you could probably buy 1-11 PD or so in most provinces and leave the rest of the gold in the bank so that you can buy lots of PD in the provinces that need it. (For instance, if you go raiding in enemy territory, PD can make nice defensive reinforcements for when you get cornered.)

Edit: there's also a bit of psychological effect there. Buying too much PD can tempt you to stand your ground, in order to protect that 200-gold investment, when tactically you ought to retreat and buy time.

Sorry if I'm lecturing. Yeah, no upkeep is a nice perk for PD. Upkeep is 1/15 of purchase value for regular troops, half that for sacreds. Most summonables have no upkeep, except for the ones which are also purchaseable with gold (not necessarily by you) and some like trolls (have goldcost = 30, so upkeep is 2 per turn). Total upkeep is of course listed in the upper-right-hand corner of the map. Note that same mounted recruitables with a #secondshape (Machakan sacred spider-thingies and LA Agarthan Cave Knights) have no upkeep cost after their rider gets killed.

-Max

[thejeff]

Because it's expensive to put in every province. 210 gold for 20pd. Plus the cost and upkeep of any archers you add.

And because if you put that in every province, your enemy will expect it and hit you with things that 20 PD won't even slow down. Horrors, flying/teleporting/sneaking thugs, larger armies and all that investment just vanishes.

PD can be useful. A little bit is necessary stop scout attacks. Decent amounts can back up real forces where you expect to be attacked. Huge amounts can be an unexpected surprise since they can be raised quickly, then buffed by mages.

In the early/middle game PD can be a good defense against the weak raiders most nations can field at that point or the early remote spells (Call of the Winds/Wild, maybe Hordes from Hell), but a cheaply equipped BaneLord can take any reasonable amount of PD, even with archers.

Upkeep is 1/15th the gold cost of the unit, 1/30th for sacreds. Some summons have upkeep, usually because they can also be bought by another nation/era or from a site. Trolls are the most common example.

[capnq]

llamabeast said: Magic sites don't disappear. I'd suggest that was an interface confusion, e.g. you were clicking on a different province or something.

If you lose control of a province, any magic sites you found there stop being displayed until you regain control.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have a couple of questions in my neverending (sigh) search for understanding, just to prepare myself to be Flayed when I play my first MP game...

Is there anyway you can combine your Priests/Mages/Magic Users Into your Regular Army so that you can move them all at the same time? It just seems SO tedious to move your Army and then 5 different Magic Units to a province and THEN have to set up and place each unit AGIAN.

If they (Magic Users) can't be grouped WITH the Army can they be grouped together as a 'Magic Division' (at least that would help).

What the H*#% is a HORROR and how do you kill it?

I found a site that I had had to enter to get my goodies and my best Searcher Mage was killed right off...

OK I'll fix that, so I sent my equipped and buffed our Phonix Pretender in to deal with the upstart and he jumped on my Phonix and killed him before I got off a shot.

So How do I get one of these cute little buggers and how do I dispose of my opponents little pest?

I have been toying around with the LUCK attribute because it gives me a lot of gems ect right off the bat and helps in the early game.

Since i have never made it to the mid or end game it doesn't seem to matter. Burt I have seen posts that says Luck (or Misfortune) for that matter caps out. Does anyone know what the cap limit is so I can determine if Order is a better play than LUCK3.

Last question... It seems as if (although I am NEVER the top contender that everone in SP wants a piece of my little kingdom around turn 15 to 20.

Is there a reason for that as I thought that it gamged up on the leader (or is that just usually in MP?

Thanks guys for any help...Getting closer every day!!!

[Zeldor]

GrudgeBringer:

Hold Ctrl and make a group of commanders that way

Here you have example of newbie game gone wrong. Ended in a draw due to micromanagement hell etc.

Game name: Urapara
Password: haslo
[turn file attached]

[Endoperez]

I've used Ctrl to group my commanders, not Alt. Perhaps both work, or it's OS spesific?

To ungroup the commanders, hold control/alt again to remove them from the group.


If you are moving forces from many places into one province, press 'y' to give orders to units that will be there next turn. You can see and position all units except those that already are there. There is a minor bug that prevents you from repositioning troops that are already there, although you can give orders to them.


Sites with "enter for adventure" are dangerous. Try sending in expendable commanders like indy priests or something, see if they ever get lucky, and check out the opposition.

Luck scale: it's not known how good Luck is, exactly. I've tested it in several games with 9 provinces, total, and in these Luck nations generally got about as much gold as Order nations, in addition to the other events. The quality of the provinces had more effect on the nations' total amount of gold than what good scale they had taken.
The rumored break-away point is due to the fact that Order affects all of your provinces every turn, but Luck only gives few events. It was thought that the maximum was three events/turn, but I've seen four even in my 9-province test games. It's hard to test, because some spells cause bad events and you can't be sure the AI or an enemy player didn't cause some of the events you got in an actual game. Still, at least 4 and perhaps more events are possible per turn, but 6-7 are rare except in really big games and Luck will definitely produce less money than Order in those. On the other hand, those games last a long time and the gems you get from Luck would have added up quite nicely.

IMO, it depends from your nation. If you get lots of money early on to properly afford expansion and research and your first castle or two, Luck may be too unreliable. I often take Luck, even if Order might be better, because I like being lucky.



Short Guide to Horrors

Horrors come in several varieties. Lesser Horrors are ethereal and nasty. Horrors are ethereal and quite strong. Doom Horrors have fitting names like Eater of Gods or Maker of Ruins, and special abilities like Siege Bonus 400 and special weapons that negate "lucky" attribute and impose penalties on you. Dream Horrors were also added in a recent patch.

Astral spells can cause Horror marks, which attract horrors. Horror Marks can't be removed, but the horrors won't spontaneously attack you before you are marked multiple times, and even then they'll often be of the lesser variety. You can't see how strong your Horror Mark is, but there are several levels of it.

Blood has spells which can summon horrors, mostly in battles. Hellpower increases all the caster's magic paths by 2 (until the end of battle), but causes Horror Marking and summons horrors. Call Horror summons one, but the caster doesn't control it; instead, it attacks anything it pleases, probably something that has been Marked. Send Horror/Dream Horror can send the beasts to a remote province. They will try to kill whatever's there, but you won't get the province if they succeed.

The only simple way to get controlled Horrors is via Wish. You can wish for the unique Doom Horrors if you want to, but they have a good chance of attacking the summoner, and even if you get to control one it will disappear before or later.

[Zeldor]

Endo:

Heh, yes. Air conditioning is not working well enough here Hot!