Poll: How much will the new bless effects affect your pretender design?

[Pocus]

can someone repost the complete blessing effects list that a beta posted somewhere? I cant find it again.

tia

[Nerfix]

You could have found it at Dom X...

Anyway:

Bless Effects

In Dominions II, the effect of bless is dependent on the starting magic of your pretender.
You get first batch of powers at magic level 4, and the first batch power is updated at
magic levels 6,8 and 10, except for the air shield effect. You get a second batch power at magic level 9. The effects are
initial, empowering or dying makes no diffrence to the bless effects.

None - Morale +3

Fire 4 - Attack Skill +2
Fire 6 - Attack Skill +3
Fire 8 - Attack Skill +4
Fire 9 - Flaming Weapons
Fire 10 - Attack Skill +5

Air 4 - Air Shield (20%)
Air 5 - Air Shield (25%)
Air 6 - Air Shield (30%)
Air 7 - Air Shield (35%)
Air 8 - Air Shield (40%)
Air 9 - Shock resistance (75%)
Air 10 - Air Shield (45%)

Water 4 - Defense Skill +2
Water 6 - Defense Skill +3
Water 8 - Defense Skill +4
Water 9 - Quickness (50%)
Water 10 - Defense Skill +5

Earth 4 - Reinvigoration 2
Earth 6 - Reinvigoration 3
Earth 8 - Reinvigoration 4
Earth 9 - Armor value +4
Earth 10 - Reinvigoration 5

Astral 4 - Magic Resistance +1 (Max 18)
Astral 6 - Magic Resistance +2
Astral 8 - Magic Resistance +3
Astral 9 - Twist Fate (protection from first hit)
Astral 10 - Magic Resistance +4

Death 4 - Lesser Fear
Death 6 - Lesser Fear
Death 8 - Lesser Fear
Death 9 - Life after Death, Fear (Undead beings only)
Death 10 - Lesser Fear

Nature 4 - Berserk +1
Nature 6 - Berserk +2
Nature 8 - Berserk +3
Nature 9 - Regeneration, Poison Resistance (50%)
Nature 10 - Berserk +4

Blood 4 - Strength +2
Blood 6 - Strength +3
Blood 8 - Strength +4
Blood 9 - Death Curse
Blood 10 - Strength +5

BTW, if somebody knows the numerical values of the Lesser Fear/Fear blessing, could you please tell me those values?

[ October 30, 2003, 11:40: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Jasper]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
If the blessings need to be improved to be desirable I think it is better to lower magic cost rather than starting off blessings at lower levels. The blessings start of 4 for a reason, to encourage players to give their pretenders a decent magic score.

I suggested starting at 3, but at +1 bonus, so the effect for 4 would be the same. The main difference would be to increase the benefit for higher levels, and that you'd get a bonus at every level rather than skipping the odd levels.

I suspect simply lowering the cost of magic won't help this issue, but instead free up more points to be spent on scales/castle, and an increased diversification in magic skills. Even halving the cost of magic would not convince me to get more than level 4 in anything, except possibly a 6 on a pretender that started with 3.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by johan osterman:
If the blessings need to be improved to be desirable I think it is better to lower magic cost rather than starting off blessings at lower levels. The blessings start of 4 for a reason, to encourage players to give their pretenders a decent magic score.

I suspect simply lowering the cost of magic won't help this issue, but instead free up more points to be spent on scales/castle, and an increased diversification in magic skills. Even halving the cost of magic would not convince me to get more than level 4 in anything, except possibly a 6 on a pretender that started with 3.

---

I suspect it would help. Diversication or not, it could/would lead to players taking magic on their Pretenders. And that is your style of play. I can take 9 Fire with Moloch and get ok scales and a decent fort.

No wonder Sphinx and Fountains got so popular...

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Why not? I don't consider 3 Order & Prod, Fortified City and non-negative Growth that bad.
Fear the Blessed Units of Flaming Death.

Death by Lightning, for example. All of the factions have alot to gain from access to magic they normally can't use.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Why not? I don't consider 3 Order & Prod, Fortified City and non-negative Growth that bad.
Fear the Blessed Units of Flaming Death.

Death by Lightning, for example. All of the factions have alot to gain from access to magic they normally can't use.

---

Even if there would be but a single mage able to use those spells in the whole nation?

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by johan osterman:
If the blessings need to be improved to be desirable I think it is better to lower magic cost rather than starting off blessings at lower levels. The blessings start of 4 for a reason, to encourage players to give their pretenders a decent magic score.

I suggested starting at 3, but at +1 bonus, so the effect for 4 would be the same. The main difference would be to increase the benefit for higher levels, and that you'd get a bonus at every level rather than skipping the odd levels.

I suspect simply lowering the cost of magic won't help this issue, but instead free up more points to be spent on scales/castle, and an increased diversification in magic skills. Even halving the cost of magic would not convince me to get more than level 4 in anything, except possibly a 6 on a pretender that started with 3.

---

The main problem, it seems to me, is the increasingly higher cost of higher magic levels - it's O(n^2), which is really painful. Getting a couple of extra levels is not that bad, but you reach a point where each level costs as much as a scale, which is quite a lot. High levels of magic are useless for site searching too.

Hmm, I just had an idea to reward high levels of magic - what if high level mages automatically search every province they enter with their skill level minus 5? That way a fire 9 god would automatically know when there is a fire site present - he wouldn't need to take a month searching. This seems appropriate for the Lord of Every Flame.

Another option would be auto-searching based on dominion and god's magic skills, but that would be even more powerful, so an auto-search based on presence would probably be a better first step.


Even so, it still seems that high levels of magic go up in cost too fast. Why not a flat 10 per additional level of magic (after the first for paths you don't already have)? Or 10 + 2/level above base?

[josh_f]

The other possibility would be to have the cost per level decrease as the level increases. If it were cheaper to go from 4 to 10 then from 1 to 4, people would be more likely to specialize. I'd probable suggest making the total cost to get to 10 a 120 points with two-thirds cost being the levels from 1-4.
Another formula that might work would be a flat rate per level equal to the starting path cost with a minimum cost of 10. In other words an archmage would pay 10 points for every level; a molch would pay 10 points for every fire level, but 80 points for every non-fire level. Like my earlier suggestion this boosts the mages and makes it more cost effective to increase a pretender starting path than to add four levels of air. (unless you have a mage type pretender).

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
You could have found it at Dom X...
BTW, if somebody knows the numerical values of the Lesser Fear/Fear blessing, could you please tell me those values?

thanks Nerfix.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nerfix:
You could have found it at Dom X...
BTW, if somebody knows the numerical values of the Lesser Fear/Fear blessing, could you please tell me those values?

thanks Nerfix.

---

You're welcome.