Polish OOB 5.5

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Helicopters

BTW: why not just change weapon #190 4x 57mm S-5 to 4x 57mm S-5K with range 40 and Heat 13, like in Russian OOB?

Already done last October and as well all Helicopters and aircraft were checked in all OOB's that use those type of rockets in the game to ensure the helo types are only used by helos and aircraft types are only used by aircraft and that aircraft only have "HE" ammo and that Helos have "AP" or HEAT rounds if applicable.

Off map aircraft do not use AP ammo as "AP". "AP" is the number of guns in an aicraft Unit Class so off map aircraft rockets that have HEAT warheads have a HE Pen rating while on map helicopter rockets are free to use AP ammo as HEAT and are set up with HEAT pen ratings and that was actually one of the first projects completed


Don

[Pibwl]

Time for the aircraft

127 Yak-3 - should be removed IMO. Yak-3 were pure fighters, very scarce in Poland (no more than 20), and all withdrawn by the end of 1946. It should carry no bombs - now it has 24

It can be changed to anti-tank Jak-9T with 1x 37 mm N-37 gun (#184) and 1x 12.7mm UBS (#175), no bombs, used until 1951 (Polish - also Czech, German, Hungarian spelling is Jak).

128 Yak-9M - it was armed in fact with 1x 20 mm and 1x 12.7mm UBS, not 2 x 20mm.

Despite Russian sources on Yak-9 don't say explicitly, that it couldn't carry bombs, but they describe gun armament only and don't suggest any possibility, that it could carry bombs (apart from very rare Yak-9B fighter-bomber variant, which was unique in that way, that it carried bombs vertically in a bomb bay). There are also no photos of Yak-9 with bombs. Certainly it was not common use. So it seems, that they shouldn't have bombs at all in the game, unless there is a source, that some user modified them this way. In Russia, it was Il-2/Il-10 aircraft to carry out ground attack, not fighters (not counting strafing - including 37 mm gun-armed fighters)

129 Yak-9W - in fact, Jak-9W (Yak-9V) was a two-seater trainer with reduced armament (1x20mm), no bombs and speed 5-6.
It might be changed to Jak-9P with 1x 20 mm Shvak #180 and 2x 12.7mm UBS, no bombs, speed=7 (8), available from 11/47 to 1954, drawing 29118. Anyway, this would be strafing aircraft only, little useful.

130 Yak-23 - Polish spelling: Jak-23. They carried 2x 60 kg bombs, not 25 kg.
Weapon #193 should be changed to 60 kg (it's the only user) - or #194 50kg bomb could be just renamed or slightly upgraded (it shouldn't be used by propeller Yaks, mentioned above)
In fact, operationally used from mid-51 (1/51)

131 MiG-15 - MiG-15s didn't carry obsolete RS-82 rockets, nor any other rockets in the Polish service. Could be armed with two bombs 100 kg - otherwise a new bomb-armed unit should be created. Used from mid-51 (1/50)

132 MiG-17 - MiG-17s didn't carry obsolete RS-82 rockets. Could be armed with two bombs 250 kg. It should be in fact named Lim-5 - Polish licensed MiG-17F (Poland probably didn't use original Soviet-built MiG-17s, or they were a small number). Produced in Poland from 11/1956 (realistic date: 1/57) (now: 1/55).

133 MiG-17F - same as above as for RS-82, name and date. This unit is therefore IMO redundant. (BTW, not used with camouflage, and used not later, than unit above - now 12/98)

134 MiG-17bis - there didn't exist MiG-17bis variant at all. Judging from 3x23mm guns, it is radar-equipped MiG-17PF. But standard MiG-17 fighters didn't use rockets in Polish service. IMO redundant unit.

135 MiG-17PF - bombs could be changed to 250 kg, but this unit is redundant, if we change standard MiG-17F (eg. #132) to bomb-armed variant (MiG-17F has stronger gun armament and is available earlier).
If we keep it, in fact, it should be named Lim-5P, available from 1959 (1/71) and end in 1970s (now 12/88). Later most fighters were converted to ground attack Lim-6bis/6M.

To end a subject of MiG-15/17:
685 Lim-1 - license produced MiG-15, strafing unit only. IMO redundant as a strafer.

IMO it should be armed with 2x100 kg bombs, and be available alongside #131 MiG-15 - Lim name is more strongly associated with the Polish airforce of the 1950s. But it should be in fact available from 1/53 (now 1/50)

686 Lim-1A - sources don't mention "A" variant (I don't know why it's supposed to have better vision). RS-82 rockets weren't used. To be removed IMO.

687 Lim-2 - licensed MiG-15bis. RS-82 rockets weren't used. Could be armed with 2x100kg bombs, to keep Lim-2 name in the game, but it's in fact redundant (should be used from 10/54 - now 1/54)

688 Lim-2A - sources don't mention "A" variant (I don't know why it's supposed to have better vision). RS-82 rockets weren't used. To be removed IMO.

689 Lim-5 - RS-82 rockets weren't used, only 2x250kg bombs. It is redundant, if we rename #132 MiG-17 this way.

690 Lim-5M - first trial of creating a ground attack variant, but used from 1/61 (1/60) until around end of 60s (now 12/84) - later converted to Lim-6bis. Better picture is 29113 - without camo.

691 Lim-6bis - basic light attack plane of that time - radio should be 90 (91). A number of rockets should be doubled - it carried 2x16 rockets S-5 plus 2x250kg bombs (8-rocket launchers weren't even used). Better picture is 29112 and icon 2809 - camouflaged ones.

692 Lim-6M - in fact, Lim-6M should be armed with 3x23mm guns, so it's better IMO to keep its gun armament (1x37, 2x23) and rename it to Lim-6bis (Lim-6M, differing in weaker gun armament only, appeared several years after Lim-6bis - 1971/72). Picture and icon - as above.
However, variant differing only with lighter bombs from the above one doesn't make much sense. It could be armed with 2x250kg and 2x100kg bombs instead.
There was probably a possibility of arming it with 64 rockets (4x16), but it's unseen on photos.

We could also add a cheap variant of Lim-6bis, with 32 rockets only (and drop tanks), without bombs.

End of part 1

Michal

[Pibwl]

Aicraft, part II

136 Il-10 - used until 1959 only (now 12/68). According to a Russian book on Il-10 [Aviakollektsya 5/2004], it could carry only 4 rockets (now it has 2x4), but better idea is to arm it with four 132mm RS Rockets (#191 from Russian OOB) instead of RS-82. In addition to 4 rockets, it could carry 2x100 kg bombs or cluster HE or AT bomblets in bomb bays.

RS-132 might replace RS-82 in weapons' file, to save a slot (it would replace RS-82 in Il-10 and Il-2, other a/c shouldn't use it anyway).


137 MiG-19PM - PM was an interceptor, without ground attack capabilities, and even without guns (reportedly it could theoretically use 210mm rockets, but not in Poland).

Could be changed to MiG-19P with two guns 30 mm and 32 x 57mm rockets (4x8). Used from 6/58 until 74.

138 MiG-19PF - name should be changed to MiG-19P (there didn't exist MiG-19PF variant at all). Used from 6/58 until 74. Apart from 2x250 kg bombs it should carry 16 x 57 mm rockets (weapon #190 4x57mm with 4 shots) (if it carried bombs instead of drop tanks, it should as well carry rocket pods on their dedicated points). Radio should be 91 - it was a rare plane, and not a ground attack one.

139 MiG-21bis - used from 3/80 until 1/2004 (1/80-12/98). Better picture of specifically Polish MiG-21bis is 29230 or 29349 (drawing).

140 MiG-21bis - as above. If we want to increase its punch, it can carry 96 rockets 57mm (2x32, 2x16) (now 64) - there might be added third weapon #190 with 8 shots. Radio should be just 90 (92) - it wasn't typical ground attack plane.

There could be created also MiG-21M - as above, used 1970-around 1990, armed with 64 rockets S-5 (it would be transitional in number of rockets between MiG-21PF and bis)

141 MiG-19PF - to be removed - MiG-19s weren't ground attack aicraft and didn't carry parachute bombs.

142 MiG-21bis - as #139. Publications don't mention using parachute bombs as an option in MiG-21 - it is doubtful. It could take 2-4 napalm bombs #221 ZAB-250 instead (even two 500 kg napalm bombs).

143 MiG-21PF - pictures of Polish MiG-21s are 29142 or 29230 (although later version)

144 MiG-21PF - pictures as above. This version could carry only 32 rockets (2x16; now: 64 rockets).

I don't know why MiG-21PF have vision 10, while more modern MiG-21bis have 0.


Other options to add:
- MiG-21M, used 1970-2000, armed with 4 rockets S-24 (weapon 023 from Russian OOB)

- MiG-21M armed with 2 x Kh-66 missiles, used in around 1972-89.
Kh-66 (AS-7) was basically an earlier version of kh-23 Kerry: HE/HEAT warhead 103 kg including 51 kg of explosive (Ch-25 has warhead 108 kg), max range 8-10 km. Accuracy around 50 - it was beam-riding missile. It can replace #206 Kh-23 Kerry (not used in Poland).


145 MiG-23MF - delivered in 6/79, used until 12/99 (now 1/79-1/99). In addition to 2 bombs 500 kg (1000 lb) it can take 2 x 250 kg (max 1600 kg). Better Polish icon is 1927.

BTW: weapon 198 - 1000lb bomb should be renamed to 500kg.

146 MiG-23MF - maximum number of rockets was 128 (4x32), not 160, so it should be given 11, 11, 10 shots. Delivered from 6/79, used until 12/99. Radio should be 91 - it wasn't a numerous plane.

Sukhoi planes will come later.

148 MiG-29 - no standard early MiG-29 can carry air-to-ground missiles. Publications don't mention usage of parachute bombs on Polish MiG-29s. Typical (and only?) anti-ground armament is 4 x 500 kg ordinary bombs or 80 x 80mm rockets.
Used in Poland from 1/89 until 120 (now 1/92-12/114)
It's worth to change pic from generic to Polish 29121 or 29236

307 MiG-23MF - redundant (I can't see any difference but the icon and narrower timespan comparing to #145 unit). To be removed IMO.

308 MiG-23MF - redundant (the same as unit #146, with less rockets).

309 Il-2m3 - it should be armed with two #185 23mm VYa cannons instead of 12.7 mm (standard for late model Il-2). It's worth to change RS-82 rockets to 4 heavier RS-132 (from Soviet oob) and 2x 100 kg bombs.

Other proposed variants:
- 2 x 250kg bombs only

- rockets and AP bomblets (if they are used in the game).

556 MiG-29 - S-13 rockets are not used in Poland. Could be armed with cluster bombs and 2-4 x 240 mm S-24 rockets (weapon #023 from Rus.OOB, quite obsolete though) or 40 x 80mm rockets S-8 (weapon #203).
Used in Poland from 1/89 (now 1/92)
It's worth to change pic from Serbian to Polish 29121 or 29236

557 MiG-29 - usage, picture as above. It isn't clear, if parachute bombs are used on MiG-29s. Could be armed with 4 x 500 kg bombs or 6 x #221 ZAB-250 FAE napalm bombs.

558, 559 MiG-23 - to be removed (I don't know what is their purpose, they sure won't be used in 2015-2020, for MiG-23s were withdrawn in 1999). In addition they have same armament as units 145-146 and 307-308 and icons of Su-22.

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Fighter-bombers - the rest

Originally Posted by Pibwl

We could also add a cheap variant of Lim-6bis, with 32 rockets only (and drop tanks), without bombs.

- It would fit well instead of unit 133 or 134. Specs of #133 are OK for this purpose (apart from rockets), but used in 1964-1992, radio 90.
I think it doesn't make much sense to convert #134 to Lim-6M, differing from Lim-6bis in 3 guns 23mm instead of 1x37 and 2x23, used from 1971.

147 Su-7B (4 napalm bombs) - should be renamed Su-7BM or BKL, available until 6/90

Poland used only BM and BKL variants - both little differed in game terms, but BM were delivered earlier (1964). From 9/71, six-hardpoint variants started to replace four-hardpoint (in both models). I usually name 6-hardpoint model BKL.

149 Su-7B (2x 500kg bombs) - should be renamed Su-7BM, introduced from 6/64, withdrawn 6/90 (now 1/61-12/99). It could carry even 4x 500kg bombs without drop tanks (now it has only 2, like lighter MiG-21) (in case of war, planes with such maximum payload would also appear, on close range missions)

150 Su-7B (96 rockets 57mm - 6x16) - should be renamed Su-7BKL, used from 9/71 until 6/90.

Options worth to be created:
- Su-7BM with 64 rockets 57mm (4x16), from 6/64 until some 1975 (or 8/71, if we'd want to draw a clear line)
- Su-7BKL with 4 or 6 rockets S-24 (mentioned before, to be created), from 9/71 until 6/90 (configuration with 6 rockets is seen on photo)
- possibly Su-7BKL with 6 bombs 250 kg (from 9/71 until 6/90).

151 Su-7B (2 cluster bombs) - it should be renamed Su-7BKL, used until 6/90.
In addition to 2 bombs, it could carry at least 32 rockets S-5 (2x16).


152 Su-20MK (4 cluster bombs) - name was just Su-20 (Su-17MK was Russian designation). Used in 5/74-2/97 (now 1/74-12/98). In addition to bombs, it could carry 64 rockets 57mm (without drop tanks)

Possible options to be created:
- Su-20 with 10 x 250 kg bombs.
- Su-20 with 4 x 500 kg bombs (in case we haven't made Su-7 with 4x500 kg)
- Su-20 with 128 x 57mm rockets (4x32) (maximum payload was probably 192 rockets - 6x32)

They could replace #558, 559 MiG-23 (with Su-20 icon anyway)


153 Su-22M-4 (2xKh-25) - used in Poland only from 1984 until 120 (now 1/74-12/100).
All Su-22s should have laser RF. Since that date, Su-22M4s are basic Polish strike aircraft, so they should have generally radio=0. By the way, better way of writing name in Polish sources is "Su-22M4".

Apart from 2 Kh-25 missiles, it can carry at least 40 x 80mm rockets in addition (weapon #203) or 2 bombs 500 kg (not a maximum payload - with drop tanks).
A possible configuration seen on photos is 4 missiles Kh-25.

Other configurations, that should be added:
- 6 bombs 500 kg (maximum 8 x 500kg)
- 6 rockets S-24
- 80 rockets 80mm S-8 (4x20)

154 Su-22M-4 (2xKh23) - Kh-23 missiles weren't used in Poland at all. Su-22M4 can carry two heavier Kh-29 Kedge instead (#208 in Russian oob), and 40 x 80mm rockets or 2 bombs 250 kg in addition. Available from 1/84 as well.

155 Su-7B (6xPB-250) - it should be renamed Su-7BKL and used until 6/90.

156 Su-22M-4 (9xPB-250) - used from 1984 until 120.

157 Su-22M-4 (40 rockets S-8, 2 napalm bombs) - used as above.


585 MiG-29M (SEAD) - no early MiG-29 can carry air-to-ground missiles. Polish ones definitely don't carry any - to be removed.

The only Polish SEAD aircraft (before F-16) should be Su-22M4 armed with 2 Kh-25MP missiles (up to 4) and 2 bombs or 40x 80mm rockets.
Weapon 215 Kh-27 Kegler (not used in Poland) should be renamed to Kh-25MP - I think, data would be the same (it was the same family of missiles).
It would need date change in formation 155.

952 Yak 9M - as I wrote before, wrong cannon armament and shouldn't carry rockets - redundant unit IMO (Soviet fighters in 1941-43 were often fit to carry rockets, but from around 1944, newer versions of fighters aren't credited with such capability in Russian sources).

As for now, I leave F-16s undisturbed. I wish it was Gripen by the way...

To be added:
Avia B-33 - like Il-10, but armed with 4 x VYa-23 guns, from 1/54 until 1959 (armament: 4 x RS-132 rockets and 2 bombs 100 kg).

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Now it's down the hill... Still a lot of units, but less absorbing. Part of them I'll leave till next year.

Rocket artillery

160 BM-21 Grad - weapons should be ordinary #128 122mm LR with range 211 (21 km) - I don't know why it is supposed to be "SR" with 201 range. There's no mention on such short-ranged rockets in Polish sources, and BM-21s from the beginning used standard 21-km rockets M-21OF. Used until 110 at least (now: 12/90), probably until some 115. Crew is only 4 (now: 12).

Therefore, weapon 104 is useless - it might be replaced with 122mm Feniks-Z rockets with range extended to 42 km [source Raport 8/05].

There should be created new SP-rocket launcher WR-40 Langusta, using modified Grad rockets Feniks-Z - in service from 7/2008 [source ntw 8/08], picture 14021, some icon with a short cab (396 could be, or 394 - fits better to Jelcz truck's flat windows), speed some 90 km/h. It uses 40 rockets Feniks-Z.

There should be created also unit WR-40 platoon with 4 launchers

161 WP-8 MRS - full name: WP-8z. Correct picture is 29333. Used until end of 1970s only (12/96) [source: nTW 6/94]

163 130mm M-51 MRS - there's no sign, that they were used in Poland. To be removed, unless somebody can find a source. At that time, Poland used Soviet BM-14s, which offered longer range.

164 BM-13 Katyusha - might be Polish spelling: Katiusza

165 BM-21 Grad Pl - as unit #160 - weapons should be changed to 128, used until some 115 (12/90).

166 RPU-14 MRS - they weren't used in Poland - there was similar own WP-8z developed.

167 BM-14-16 MRS - definitely used before 1960 - from some 1957 until 1989 at best (now: 1/67-12/96). Icon shows BM-13 - 2228 looks quite appropriate (described as BM-11), or 397.

168 BM-24 Pl - used until end of 1970s at best (now: 12/96 - definitely not that long). Correct picture is 11034 - now it's BM-21

...

295 RM-70 MRL-CM - CM rockets weren't used in Poland until recently, and now they are used first of all with modified WR-40 SP-launchers. So, this unit should be changed to WR-40 MRL-CM, in service from 7/2008 (data as above)

Therefore, weapon 212 should be changed to fit 122mm Feniks CM rockets, with range extended to 30 km [source: Raport 8/05]

296 RM-70 MRL - it can carry 40 rockets and 40 reloads (now: 40). Crew is only 4 (6) [Polish Military Equipment]. Max speed is 80 km/h (now: 15)

298 RM-70 Modular - isn't used as for now and little probable, that it will be


Michal

[Pibwl]

O/M artillery

171 155mm Section - fiction. M777 is not used as for now, and not in plans. Class is inappropriate BTW.

174 122mm Section (46-89, A-19) - correct picture is 36142 or 41091. Maybe it should be named "122mm Gun Sec" to differentiate from howitzers? And maybe it should be rather Heavy Artillery? (it was considered long-range gun then).

176 152mm Section (50-64, D-1) - last date should be 12/65 (12/64) to avoid gap before unit #186. But in fact I can see no difference between the two.

177 152mm Section (65-103) - D-20 howitzers weren't used in Poland. It should have ML-20 Gun-How, used from 1950 (in 3-gun unit) until late 1990s. Picture eg. 36141 or 29401 or 32015
Maybe it should be named 152mm Gun Sec.

ML-20 weapon (eg. weapon #239 from Czech OOB) could replace one of identical weapons #114 or #240 D-1 (and all D-1 units in the game should use a remaining one). Weapon #111 D-20 is used for Dana Sp-howitzer.

178 155mm Section+ - fiction. Not used as for now, and no firm plans.

180 100mm Support - Polish ships with 100mm guns were used only from 7/47 until 1967 (until a damage of the destroyer Blyskawica's machinery). Before 1947 there were no ships with real naval guns available (not counting allies). It would demand change in formations, if we want to correct it.

181 130mm Support - Polish ships with 130mm guns existed only between 1958-1986 (now: 46-120).

182 76mm Support - ships with 76mm gun are used from 1/84 only (1/70) - and only single naval guns are available after 2003.

186 152mm Section (66-99, D-1) - used until early 90s only (say, 1992 - now: 12/99) [not present in Polish Military Equipment book from 1998]

190 122mm Section (66-103, M30) - A photo of Polish late M30 howitzer is 29285 (with new tyres).

Rest later.

Michal

[Pibwl]

Artillery - rest

500 76mm Battery - armament should be ordinary #122 76.2mm ZiS-3 FG. Current #241 76mm L51 obr36 was pre-war Soviet gun F-22, not used by Poland (this weapon is useless).

502 152mm Battery (46-49, D-1) - D-1 howitzers were used only from early 1950s [according to J. Kajetanowicz's book]. It should be changed to 152mm ML-20 gun-howitzers, used from 1946 (as my comments on unit #177)

541 M77 Dana - should be named just Dana, eventually Dana wz.77, but it's worse option (M77 is Western designation, in Poland it is designated "SP-gun-howitzer wz.77" - 1977 Pattern, but "wz.77" doesn't make much sense alone).

Dana's gun isn't D-20 - weapon #111 should be renamed to wz.77 or M.77 Howitzer. According to Polish and Czech sources, range is 18,7 km, using extended range ammo - 20 km (now range 214).

547 M77 Dana+ - name as #541. Is AP meant to be cluster munition? In fact, it doesn't use any - and won't be in predictable future (the only cluster rounds commissioned so far are for 122mm rockets and 98mm mortars)

552 2S1 Gozdzik - apart from a cool camo (applied from mid-90s, not 105), the only difference from unit #39 is radio 91 - it should have 90 as well - it'll remain basic Polish SP-gun until 120. There shouldn't be AAMG. I suggest to make a border between these units at 94/95 years.

759 Krab Platoon - the first three-gun Krab platoon was made possible from mid-2010 (third gun made). There's a hope, that by 2013 there'll be another three at last... Radio code should be 3 IMO. There's no AP ammo as for now.

760 2S7 Platoon - used from 1986 until spring of 2006 [Poligon nr 06/2009] (now: 1/87-12/120) (- like comments for unit #38). Radio code should be 1 or 3 (8 guns only).

761 M77 Platoon - name should be Dana Platoon.

762 M77 Platoon+ - as unit #547 - no AP bomblet ammo.

Michal

[Pibwl]

Rest, in order of appearance:

199 Concrete Bunker (80-120) - well... B11 recoilless guns weren't used that long, and I can't imagine firing a recoilless gun from a closed bunker. Might be replaced with #231 85mm gun, as in unit 198. There was no 40mm AGL used - might be replaced with second MG or 40mm PALLAD-D #124. But in fact, there were no gun-armed fortifications used in Poland after the war...

200 Hibernyt SPAA - correct name is "Hibneryt". Used from 1986 at least (from photos in military press) (now 1/92). Maybe FC and RF should be higher - basic ZU-23-2 gun (unit 88) has FC 5, RF 3 (this one: 2/1).

There should be added new SP-AAgun Hibernyt-P - from 2008, with lightly armoured cab, platform (lower sides of gun mounting from sides and rear) and gun's front plate. Maybe armour 1/1/1/ 1/0/0/ 0 ?

201 LSPZRA Sopel - SP-AAgun - prototype only from mid-90s, abandoned.

202 ZSU-4MP Biala - correct designation is ZSU-23-4MP Biala. Fire control should be possibly higher (now 20) - it has modern computer electro-optical fire control system, with laser RF (now RF 8). It could be fitted with new APDS ammo, with increased penetration.
Radio code 1 - I'm afraid there is still less, than 10 vehicles.

203 Strela-2 Team - used from 1972 (1/68) [Polish Military Equpiment book] - might need date change in some formations. Polish name is Strzala-2M (Strela-2M eventually), used until now at least (say, until 115 - now: 104). Better rifle is AKMS (029)

204, 206 98mm Mortar /Plt - Beryl SMG hasn't been commissioned by regular units so far (only special forces) - should be ordinary Beryl rifle #28

205 Grom Team - there should be created two units. First was a transition missile Grom-I, produced from 1995 and used in small quantities from no earlier, than mid-95 (now 1/95). It should have radio code 3 or 1, but radio chance should be better. Rifle should be ordinary AKMS #29 (too early for Beryl). Might be used until 2000.

Specifications of #126 PPZR Grom SAM (which should be named Grom-I) should be no worse, than early Igla missiles (which have accuracy 118 - this one 90). Grom was basically a partly-licensed copy of Igla.

Final version is named just Grom and was introduced from 2001 [Raport 6/2000]. Radio code=90.
It should have a new weapon, with accuracy well above 120.
According to Polish official figures, final Grom is better, than basic Igla missiles (kill probability of a fighter 0.6 vs 0.45 in Igla/Igla-1 and 0.3 in Strela-3) [Raport 9/1999]. Ordinary Igla/Igla-1 in Russian oob have accuracy 118, Igla-N - 126, Igla-S - 150. Max range of Grom is 5500 m (same source).


213 PKMS MMG [2] - should be used until 120 - AKMS and PKMS rather won't be wiped out totally before 120 (now: 12/101)

214 12.7mm WKM HMG - as #96. It should be named just NSW HMG (better pic is common 11096).

Distinction between these two units (rifle only) doesn't make much sense, because AKMS was just an AKM with folding stock, adapted in late 60s, not in 1985...

Maybe 008 AKM Rifle should be renamed to AK Rifle (basic model AK-47, adopted in Poland in 1952), and 029 AKMS Rifle to AKM Rifle (adopted in 1965). Both have the same specifications in game terms, but AKM name in 1955 is anachronism. It would cover also folding stock versions (AKS and AKMS), without distinction.

If we rename weapon 008 AKM to AK, than both WKM HMG units should have later #29 rifle.

216 C Gustaf RCL (in-RR) - comments like unit #223 (dates OK, but it's a rare weapon - used only by special forces and, from 2001, airmobile forces). It doesn't belong to any formation in this period as for now. Maybe we don't need it, since we have such unit 223 Inf-AT.

224 M777 FH - fiction.

230 Ammo Truck - more proper picture is eg. 29168 Zil-133, not unfamiliar in Poland US truck.

231 Ammo Carrier - in fact, special armoured ammo carriers were never used in Poland, especially on MT-LB chassis (armoured ammo carriers for SP-guns weren't Soviet practice).

One of removed MTLBs (like units 407, 422) could be changed to mentioned before engineer's reconnaissance carrier TRI Hors, basing on MTLB. Proposed class 122 light support APC (one unit 922 uses this class, but should be removed).
Based upon MT-LB, armed with NSVT AAMG, SD (8 tubes), used from around 1983 until 2020, speed 60 km/h, carry 109. It should swim a bit faster, than MT-LB thanks to hydrojets. Picture: 29508.

It would need new formation, with a single vehicle.

There could be also possibly created ISM Kroton SP minelet launcher, basing upon MT-LB, used from some 2004 (in small number), picture: 29509 (if it's needed, I can provide more info).

Regards
Michal

[Marcello]

231 Ammo Carrier - in fact, special armoured ammo carriers were never used in Poland, especially on MT-LB chassis (armoured ammo carriers for SP-guns weren't Soviet practice).

No, but MT-LBs used as artillery tractors have racks for carrying ammunition internally (see an example here). So while there probably may not be dedicated armored ammunition carriers there are vehicles that could perform such task. From what I recall from past discussions it is an unit that some players feel to be rather useful, so if it can be kept around it might be worthwhile leaving it alone.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Marcello

No, but MT-LBs used as artillery tractors have racks for carrying ammunition internally (see an example here). So while there probably may not be dedicated armored ammunition carriers there are vehicles that could perform such task.

You're right, but they were first of all dedicated tractors for MT-12 100mm AT guns, while the Soviets didn't use special armoured ammo carriers for SP-artillery, as is the Western practice. Possibly MT-LB could be utilized this way, but it was rather not a rule.

As for Poland however, MT-LB was never used as an artillery tractor, so it wouldn't transport ammo as well. As I wrote before, basic MT-LBs they were put into use only as drivers' training vehicles, and several special variants were developed. Also a special ammo carrier for 2S1 guns, with higher compartment, was developed in late 80s, but it wasn't produced.

Michal