Night of the Long Knives? - Page 8

Strider · #71 May 3rd, 2010, 09:36 PM

The only explanation I will add to this discussion, is that this decision was not made in-the-heat-of-the-moment. This has been an ongoing problem for quite some time, that all the moderators have been in on. I supported the decision that was made. I have no personal interest in this situation, so I was able to base my opinion on what has transpired over time. A number of you are pointing to one or two PM references...this is not the entire picture.

This thread is being left open, for the time being, to allow people to get this out of their system. But, some are pushing it and trying to use it for a free-for-all. Stay on topic and keep your opinions civil.

Rookierookie · #72 May 3rd, 2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

everybody would understand if you banned somebody who did not invest any time into the game

So a nobody should get perm-banned for the same things then?

militarist · #73 May 3rd, 2010, 09:46 PM

"
You were able to deduce all that from what someone told you in IRC? That the morale of the admins was in jeopardy so Sombre had to be made into a martyr?

Sombre made mods, people like mods. Sombre was rude to people, including new players and forum users, people don't like that. Shrapnel is probably breaking even between people he attracted (I doubt he attracted anyone, retain is probably a better word) through mods and people he ran off by being rude. His mods were cool, and it appealed to a lot of people, especially forum vets, but his attitude was a detriment to the community, especially new players, who are just as important customers as any of us.[/quote]

My feeling were hurt by a mix of several reasons which, maybe wouldn't happen in case on not being a mis. But this mix is poisioning.

1. Shrapnel didn't explains why he did it. It's a Shrapnel's right, but still it hurts.
2. It's a community, not a Shrapnel's blog, so some some level of democracy is expected, regardless of those forum rules most of us don't even read, because we expect them to be just usual, reasonable, and based on an common sense.
3. I hate political correctness, as thouse who demend it are rarely the same people who contribute. From my life experience, politically correct people (I mean in extreme way, like demanding from Shrapnel to ban the offender) and those who really do something are very rarely the same person.
4. Even If I was not so much against political correctness -if someone was publicly offended - that's bad. And for public offense. There should be punishment. But if it was private - the offended have a great opputrinity to save his mood next time by avoiding games in which Somber plays with his friends. And Shrapnel could just ignore it. It's PRIVATE. I don't know if it was private or not.but..see point 1.

Foodstamp · #74 May 3rd, 2010, 09:54 PM

The forum is littered with public instances where Sombre has been "not so nice". The last modding thread I interacted with him in he kept freaking out because he didn't think we were answering the original poster's question properly. Ultimately the original poster responded and said we were answering exactly what he was asking.

Here is the thread:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45313

A quick search of his replies would bring up similar threads where he was basically trying to e-bully people for god knows what reasons.

Maerlande · #75 May 3rd, 2010, 09:59 PM

Naw. Foodstamp he was just ebullying you because he doesn't like you.

Annette · #76 May 3rd, 2010, 09:59 PM

[

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

For the Record: Sombre never said he would not abide by the rules. He disparaged the -10 point penalty for the initial offense as meaningless. To whit:

"-10 points oh noes"
'[the penalty] means as much to me as forgetting to buy milk at the grocery store.'

(second one paraphrased because i'm going off memory)

I am a fan of "fan-made justice" but can a mod come here and tell me this a lie?
No really, someone tell me he wasn't permabanned for this.

Really, do some of you believe I would ban any user for writing, "-10 points oh noes"? No, Swan, Sombre was not banned for this alone. But that nugget didn't help his case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

Its sad but true that Sombre isn't going to get unbanned. That would require Shrapnel to admit they were wrong, and that just can't happen. Besides, they don't give a F*** about you guys anymore anyways. you already bought the game, they have your money so buzz off. Or, be like shrapnel staff and stick very large implements up your rear.

If we truly didn't care about you and our other customers, would we bother with these forums? Of course, we'd like to sell more games...after all, that's our job. But if we wanted to take your money and run, why are we here?

I have no expectation that anything I say is going to make those of you in an uproar change your minds. But I'm going to try to address some of the crap being tossed around here.

Amongst the Annette and Shrapnel bashing, we have heard some very compelling arguments why the decision to ban Sombre should be reconsidered (and I appreciate those considered posts). The reality is, it's a moot point. As far as I know, Sombre has no desire to return. And if he did, we would reconsider only if he were willing to respect our terms.

I have a thick skin, and I'm actually quite impressed how some of you have managed to put words in my mouth. Sombre was not banned for one post, nor for one private message. He was banned because he continually violated, and later indicated that he would not abide by, the terms of use we set forth for these boards. Apparently there are many of you who think, 1) we should have no rules or, 2) we should let Sombre have his own set of rules. I have absolutely no wish to hurt the community (what does our company stand to gain from that?), nor am I interested in any kind of power-play. But Shrapnel Games will not successfully run a company forum with either points 1 or 2 above in play.

Everyone who buys our games or is considering buying our games is welcome here, if they abide by the rules. These are Shrapnel Games' forums, and what we allow to happen here reflects on us as a company. That is why we have the rules we do. We won't allow anyone to intentionally disregard the rules. And we won't allow anyone to intentionally run off new members.

Sombre will continue to make his mods I am sure, and there are many places he can post them. So talk with him about where he is going.

Maerlande · #77 May 3rd, 2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider

The only explanation I will add to this discussion, is that this decision was not made in-the-heat-of-the-moment. This has been an ongoing problem for quite some time, that all the moderators have been in on. I supported the decision that was made. I have no personal interest in this situation, so I was able to base my opinion on what has transpired over time. A number of you are pointing to one or two PM references...this is not the entire picture.

This thread is being left open, for the time being, to allow people to get this out of their system. But, some are pushing it and trying to use it for a free-for-all. Stay on topic and keep your opinions civil.

Honestly dude. Who the heck are you? I have NEVER seen you participate in anything on this dominions forum so how can you possibly have an intelligent opinion about Sombre? I suppose it's possible you just lurk around like some kind of sekret mod guru, but get real. If you want us to take you seriously you should at least have some reputation amongst this community. And I sure can't figure out why you supporting this decision should matter to me.

And this threat is sweet. "Play nice or we'll delete you" Get it out of our systems? That is so pompous it makes me vomit. This isn't my system.

Let's get real. It's pretty bloody common practice amongst professional associations that discipline is transparent. In my association, they even publish that you didn't pay your dues.

Bah. I can't even articulate my disgust with your post Strider. It's drivel. You jump in to basically say "Look dudes, I'm god. STFU or we'll discipline you too"

Maerlande · #78 May 3rd, 2010, 10:16 PM

Annette. In some previous posts you stated you would not discuss why you banned Sombre. Now you are discussing it.

Perhaps you aren't quite understanding that it's exactly that sort of talk tha offends us poor peons who just use these forums to play dominions.

If you aren't going to talk about it DON'T. If you are, don't say you won't.

militarist · #79 May 3rd, 2010, 10:26 PM

The best way, from my opinion is just unban him without any explanations and warnings and consider it not as a faliure of administration and dangerous achievement of users community which can lead to something extremely terrible which doesn't come to my poor imagination. And start following your own rules - no permabanning before temp bans. Ideally no permabanning at all. If someone was tempobanned 3 times, and still returns and makes new mods

... yes, I would give him 4th tempoban. As exclusion. And then 5th, etc. If he is such a maniac that he returns each time and makes new mods - Shrapnel should be just proud of it. It means he is a very loyal citizen of Shrapnel world. It's pretty cool. And sometimes people with lack of communication skills, if they have weight in community, they DESERVED it. And, having weight in community DE-FACTO in comparison with many admin's DE JURE means a lot. We are young people, we like democracy and fun. If we were serous old farts in a costumes who think too much about rules we wouldn't play computer games at all.

Please make this world, which you create for us (I hope so!) a pleasant place for US, even if it in this case will be less pleasant for you, those who regulate. You are earning money for being in this world. And we are - not. We are here only because of pleasure and only for it.

If you say you banned Sombre not for yourself, but for community...I didn't hear much voices from unpaid community users who would support you. That's a reality.

Frozen Lama · #80 May 3rd, 2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annette

I have a thick skin, and I'm actually quite impressed how some of you have managed to put words in my mouth. Sombre was not banned for one post, nor for one private message. He was banned because he continually violated, and later indicated that he would not abide by, the terms of use we set forth for these boards. Apparently there are many of you who think, 1) we should have no rules or, 2) we should let Sombre have his own set of rules. I have absolutely no wish to hurt the community (what does our company stand to gain from that?), nor am I interested in any kind of power-play. But Shrapnel Games will not successfully run a company forum with either points 1 or 2 above in play.

Glad to see you continue to be deliberatly obtuse about one of the main questions. If he was "continually violating" your sacred rules, why didnt you follow your own sacred procedures? continually means overtime. i guess you just decided to make a special case for Sombre by permabanning him and not give him your three strikes rule. seems pretty darn hypocrtical to me. And if you use the other part of the rule that lets you permaban him instantly, well good job. you've made the community more harmonius. We aren't giving him his own special set of rules. you are. And you look stupid for it. We know by now that your ego's are too hurt to back down at this point, but maybe, just maybe, we can get you to admit you were a little overzealous.