EA Arco - uncle moneybags

[Verjigorm]

Oh, believe me, I didn't whiz on your Cheerios until after I had attempted it. Too many 400g units went down the toilet for my tastes. I decided to go the standard route of kitting up Sleepers. I didn't find the strategy wholly ineffective, especially wrt indies, but I didn't like the Oriead's loss rate versus players. All of the items I put on my list of objections are observations, not hypotheses.

As for assassinations, I like to assassinate enemy encampments besieging castles. Drop in several Oriead thugs and then "Massassinate" their commander group. Combination with Dark Skies increases the probability of seduction.

[chrispedersen]

Yes, now that is something I completely agree with.

I *love* wrathful skies, and I *love* assassinating when sieged.

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Baalz

I've used this strategy verbatim, I'm a bit surprised how many people are dismissing it without even trying it. The ultimate answer is it works very well (in most situations), just try it.

In my case, I am going to definitely try it! Mistform, stoneskin and the rest notwithstanding I'm just a bit worried about those 10 HP for a 400 gold, cap only, fully kitted etc unit In addition to smart play and skills one has to perform a sort of a Leap of Faith to get there I guess..

[Viajero]

Quick one the recommended pretender in the guide:

My game is going to be a "non standard" Indies at level 7. I made some tests with the pretender and scales recommended here but even fighting with the easy indies, as recommended, survivability of the Bull was borderline in the early game, and the slightest mistake in province selection for attack could easily end up ina dead bull...

So I tweaked a little bit the proposed pretender/scales so to get dominion 9, with awe, at the expense of the luck scale, to neutral (or -1, not really sure as away from game as I type). Although still need to be very carefull when selecting indie provinces to attack early game this pretender seems to have a higher resilience.

Any ideas/opinions on the above?

[chrispedersen]

Yep, I like my play of arco much better. = )

[Ferrosol]

Originally Posted by Viajero

Quick one the recommended pretender in the guide:

My game is going to be a "non standard" Indies at level 7. I made some tests with the pretender and scales recommended here but even fighting with the easy indies, as recommended, survivability of the Bull was borderline in the early game, and the slightest mistake in province selection for attack could easily end up ina dead bull...

So I tweaked a little bit the proposed pretender/scales so to get dominion 9, with awe, at the expense of the luck scale, to neutral (or -1, not really sure as away from game as I type). Although still need to be very carefull when selecting indie provinces to attack early game this pretender seems to have a higher resilience.

Any ideas/opinions on the above?

i find the bull way to fragile for expansion, I prefer to take a Cyclops myself you can get a Dom9 E6 cyclops O3S3Mis2M1 and he will be able to take on anything short of heavy cavalry especially if you can give him a weapon of some sort.

[chrispedersen]

Lord of rebirth. Gives you death access, and after you research alteration makes a perfectly fine Sc.

[Ferrosol]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Lord of rebirth. Gives you death access, and after you research alteration makes a perfectly fine Sc.

If you take him sleeping then sure he is a decent expander. but that still leaves the question of what do you use for your year one expansion?

[ano]

Ferrosol
You'll probably be surprised but I managed to overexpand W9S9 TC played by a good player with... guess what? Peltasts and a PoD. It was vanilla game with Indies 5. Without a PoD you can still expand with peltasts very well and rapidly research Alt with Philosophers so that your dormant god is able to go killing the turn he awakes. It is perfectly doable especially if you consider that you'll have a lot of money for mercs because philosophers are so cheap.
So peltasts + mercs is the answer. The trick is that peltast is an absolutely decent unit against EA indies who are basically a lot weaker than in MA. You will lose them and have to replenish your ranks but it IS doable. Just leave really heavy provinces for your pretender and do some testing before each attack.
I think I failed only once or twice against indies with peltasts in that game at all and it was against barbarians (should've tested better)

And once you have enough resources, you may switch to chariot archers that have a good second form just in case.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Ferrosol

If you take him sleeping then sure he is a decent expander. but that still leaves the question of what do you use for your year one expansion?

I'd like to echo ano's comments. I believe I was the first one - but I absolutely say the *best* unit in arco's repetoire is by far the chariot archers.

I cannot begin to say how good these units are. Ok, they aren't jag warriors. But they are hands down a great unit. Whats not to like with a cheap trampling unit with two forms? And with the special targeting options that archers get?

Now, as for sleeping or awake. A lot of people like the PoD - and he's a perfectly ok choice. However I like the Lord of Rebirth better. He generates an insane amount of gems, and provides fast access for dwarf hammers, and death path access.

As for 'you can't use him awake..'

you have to be careful with him. However, once you get earth meld you're golden. earth meld is 100 research points. And if you go with a proper arco build, each researcher is 10-12 rp (going from memory). Assuming its 10 this means that you have
100 rp on turn 5.


The question therefore becomes is 4 turns of expansion with your pretender in year one, worth the sacrifice in design points.

Personally, I can't think of anything else to do with the points, so I usually answer yes.

Now like I said, you need to be careful with him. you have to script something like:

Stoneskin, earthmeld, earthmeld, earthmeld, earthmeld. If you dont' script the earth meld.. he'll cast stupid stones.. and die.

So you accompany him with lots of cheap troops.. cardaces, or even slingers. Chariot archers.

You have to move him forward, or back, depending on the opposition he's facing. You want him close enough to have good precision on the meld, and far enough back he doesn't get mobbed.

But as I just scripted.. he binds up any opposing troops, and they run over them.