Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available! - Page 8

Kuritza · #71 March 17th, 2008, 11:50 AM

AFAIK, Simargl was a fire God, who sometimes turned into a winged dog. 'Druzhina' is a word for a Prince's elite host of warriors and bodyguards, it was not exclusive to Vladimir.

All Princes (Knyaz') had their Druzhinas.

Kristoffer O · #72 March 17th, 2008, 03:15 PM

Bogarus is an anachronism, but so are many other nations. It is composed of national romantic folklore, kievian armies, combined with a touch of later tsar age russia and orthodox (and sectarian) christianity.

It could probably be split, but since there are just three eras in dom3 (this has started to become a gripe for me

) i felt that all these parts had to go into LA Bogarus. I would not mind playing a mod in the lines mentioned above.

The folklore part will be more nature oriented in an earlier era, when the land was held by conquering vanir.

Zeldor · #73 March 17th, 2008, 05:01 PM

druzhinas existed before 10th century too, so no problem with that.

Wrana · #74 March 18th, 2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

'Druzhina' is a word for a Prince's elite host of warriors and bodyguards, it was not exclusive to Vladimir. All Princes (Knyaz') had their Druzhinas.

Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?
As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure!

To Zeldor:
There was no problem with it existing before - just with it not existing later !

Gregstrom · #75 March 18th, 2008, 11:15 AM

I have to admit that the first time I saw the Simargl in Dom3 I thought of the Simurgh, which is a Persian-area mythical dog-bird.

Wrana · #76 March 18th, 2008, 11:22 AM

To Kristoffer:

Quote:

It is composed of national romantic folklore, kievian armies, combined with a touch of later tsar age russia and orthodox (and sectarian) christianity.

It could probably be split, but since there are just three eras in dom3 (this has started to become a gripe for me ) i felt that all these parts had to go into LA Bogarus. I would not mind playing a mod in the lines mentioned above.

Thank you! Being somewhat of a fan of 16th century, I may be just a little touchy with this interesting age being mixed with earlier times... And while we were students, one of my friends made a model of Ivan Grozny monarchy in his fantasy world. It was much fun

And sectants are, from my own point of view, surely due to be given their own faction.. Maybe Cossack-based: as you may know, some Cossacks actually were sectants and some even migrated to Turkish empire in 18th century - only to escape to have to serve Tsaritsa and her "heretical" church!

Zeldor · #77 March 18th, 2008, 11:58 AM

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units

The ultimate cavalry.

Zeldor · #78 March 18th, 2008, 11:58 AM

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units

The ultimate cavalry with fear aura.

Kuritza · #79 March 18th, 2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Wrana said:
Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?

Thats because bylinas are centered aroud several heroes who lived at about the same time

Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitych and Alesha Popovitch, mostly. But druzhinas arent necessarily assotiated with that particular Knyaz, or any bogatyr at all.
Bogarus gave me impression of being mostly inspired by 12-14th century Russia (with some splash of Christianity, and sects from later time, as K. alredy confessed)

, so Druzhina cavalry is absolutely not an anachronysm in it.
By the way. Knyaz "Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko" from these Bylinas is actually Vladimir I, around 960-1050, who baptized Russia. So everything makes lots of sense, to think of it.

Quote:

As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure!

Not much is known about Russian paganism, thats true. Christian clergy did its best to wipe all traces of pagan traditions, and they succeeded. But from what I've read, Simargl could indeed be borrowed from Iran in the ancient times.
Well, as I see it - Rudra was initially a God in India, and later there were many Rudras as his companions. Or, for example, the Beregini. Initially it was a name of one specific Goddess; there was just one Bereginya. Later slavs believed that there are many other Bereginyas as well, protective spirits of the shore. Here's one, by the way - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%...D%D1%8F_01.jpg

So why not having winged dogs named after Simargl, his minions or something - seems quite logical to me.

P.S.

And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!

Kristoffer O · #80 March 19th, 2008, 05:33 AM

> And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!

They established a trading post with the more fully nature oriented finno-ugric nation that was there in the EA, and eventually became the masters of the land. The vanir were never numerous and soon they disappeared altogether, the eventual Bogatyr being the only reminiscent of their glorious (?) past.