OFF TOPIC - The IOC sucks. - Page 8

Alpha Kodiak · #71 July 19th, 2001, 06:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lucanos:
<snip>
-The US citizens are religious fanatics

I'm sorry that my desire to worship God in my own way offends you, but you will find that there are now many countries with stronger religeous convictions than the U.S.

Actually, many of the early colonists came to the United States to find religeous freedom. Are you trying to call that a bad thing?

Baron Munchausen · #72 July 19th, 2001, 06:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Alpha Kodiak:
I'm sorry that my desire to worship God in my own way offends you, but you will find that there are now many countries with stronger religeous convictions than the U.S.

Actually, many of the early colonists came to the United States to find religeous freedom. Are you trying to call that a bad thing?

I think he's referring to the fact that many of the descendants of these "refugees from religious persecution" have become intolerant themselves and are just barely restrained from imposing their religious views on others by that inconvenient document called the Constitution.

Baron Munchausen · #73 July 19th, 2001, 06:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
I'm kicking myslf already for getting into this but I had to make this point:

QUOTE:
However, that 7% of the world that produces 25% of the CO2, just happens to produce 25% of the world's Gross National Product ... So, if the US reduces CO2, it would, in a sense, be reducing the World's GNP.
/QUOTE

Sorry but that argument is nonsense. You don't *need* to produce C02 to generate GNP. The two _are_ currently linked, but that link can and must be broken. As one of the world's richer and more technologically advanced nations the US should be helping to set an example by switching that GNP to renewable energy.

QUOTE:
What effects do you think that would have on the economies of the world? How much are you willing to pay for a computer or a pair of Levi's?
/QUOTE

The question is, how much are *you* willing to pay? At the moment it's costing you your environment. (And mine.)

Hey, I was listening to the 'horribly biased liberal media' the other day when I heard some actual REASONS to reject the Kyoto agreement. It seems that the way it was structured would force the US to pay a much higher price to reduce it's CO2 emissions than the Europeans. For example, the target date for the emissions standard was set at 1990. Well, at that time West Germany had just absorbed East Germany and had hordes of grungy old communist era industries with coal-fired power/machinery to shut down and/or rebuild. Since these had to be replaced anyway, setting the date at 1990 gives Germany a huge head start or 'credit' on meeting their goals. They get to cheat on the way their CO2 is measured, in other words. There's a similar cheat for Britain in that they are switching from coal to gas fired power plants, too. They had to do this anyway but with the date for measuring the emissions set at 1990 they get credit for this in the treaty. The US would be stuck with having to restructure its industries according to the treaty rather than getting to synchronize with a genuine need for industrial renewal of some sort. The person explaining this was none other than Newt Gingrich.

Nitram Draw · #74 July 19th, 2001, 06:48 PM

Europeans protesting our use of slaves is a little strange seeing how slavery was used throughout most of Europe at one time or another. The only differance between our slaves and theirs was we only enslaved one race, they wern't as particular who they enslaved. At least we weren't like the Romans, we didn't make our slaves kill each other for our entertainment.

Alpha Kodiak · #75 July 19th, 2001, 08:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
I think he's referring to the fact that many of the descendants of these "refugees from religious persecution" have become intolerant themselves and are just barely restrained from imposing their religious views on others by that inconvenient document called the Constitution.

Actually, Baron, I find that those who reject religion are at least as intollerant of those who have religious beliefs than the other way around, network television to the contrary. That is not to say that there aren't those who try to force their views on others, only that the majority do not. Conversely, there are those who would eliminate my rights to even say what I believe, when I want to. They also run into that "inconvenient document called the Constitution."

That is part of what makes this country great. Neither extreme is able to muzzle the other, leaving the country in a fairly stable middle ground.

CaptSpoogy · #76 July 19th, 2001, 08:31 PM

In regards to the Kyoto treaty:

The biggest problem today in North America is that most people don't care about global warming, or the enviroment. Smog in Canada and the US is getting worse all the time - so what do people do? They buy the latest big *** SUV, punching out 10mpg. Makes sense doesn't it? Why bother to work on reducing costs with alternative fuels? Encouraging mass transit? Unfortunately Mr.Bush is in the Whitehouse, so it'll be some time before anything is seriously done.

In Europe and Japan, they've had to develop sophisticated recyling techniques, pollution controls for a long time now. They are way ahead of us. Just because we still have our natural enviroments, the majority thinks that everything is still alright - when it's not.

I'm sure lots of people have seen it first hand. I live in Toronto and have watched the smog and traffic get worse each year. So what do they do? They start cutting mass transit budgets. The urban sprawl that's happening outside the city is disgusting. These new neighbourhoods with they're big houses that have 3-4 cars in every driveway. They build these huge housing developments and then force people into their cars by not building any neighborhood shopping nearby.

Nobody cares. They just shrug their shoulders and pursue the almighty dollar. Do anything to get ahead.

Nitram Draw · #77 July 19th, 2001, 08:51 PM

Spoogy,
You are correct that the Europeans and Japanese have better mass transportation systems, particularly rail. A lot of this has to do with how they developed. In the US and Canada most goods are moved long distances by truck and most people get to work by car. There is not an extensive rail network here. Building a rail transportation would be extremely expensive.
I think our best hope is the development of an alternative fuel or engine type, fuel cells or the hybrid motors could do it.

CaptSpoogy · #78 July 19th, 2001, 08:58 PM

It's true that a lot of immigrants want to go to the US. But for what reason? MONEY. It's true, I work with a lot of recent immigrants and while they choose Canada, they tell me how they considered or had been in the US to make MONEY. Not for freedom or rest from persecution, but MONEY.

I work in electronic assembly and they're always talking about how much MONEY they can get working the same job in the US. Blah blah, and SMT operator makes more in San Jose - blah blah.

But, in their final redemption I ask "Why did you come here to Canada then?" and they answer, it's for their families and the cultural mosiac that exists here etc. Shew, I'm glad not everything revolves around MONEY yet.

Interesting Story:

I met my wife on the internet. She lived in the Northwest US and I lived in Toronto, Canada. Long story short, I was going to immigrate to the US. Then I met the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) - the worst bureaucracy that ever existed in a democratic nation. I tried for months filling out forms and paying fees - to no avail. The INS works hard to keep people out of the country. Finally after wasting lots of money, we got married and decided to return to Canada. Within two months of filing her immigration papers, she was able to work, get free health care (that was my biggest fear when I was in the US - getting in an accident and owning $25,000 to some hospital!). The moral of the story: Come to Canada and still enjoy US television - but live happier and with less violence.

But for all my European friends and fellow US bashers (I know it's fun and all), while the US has lots of problems, everyday normal life there is not all that bad. The international media kinds of skews things.

CaptSpoogy · #79 July 19th, 2001, 09:07 PM

Captain Spoogy endorses Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

*** Does anyone know a way to cheaply extract hydrogen from water? ***

Don't let those Gas companies fool you! Although hydrogen gas is dangerous - it's no more explosive then gasoline!

Imagine in 50 years, when every vehicle is equipped with fuel cells. It's the middle of summer, you look into your city and where smog used to blanket the city and distort the view of downtown - it's clear! Like on a crisp winter day.

Recycle! Don't drive! Take the bus! Don't litter! Do what you can to save the enviroment! Don't contribute to urban sprawl! Build UP not OUT!

If you ever get attacked by a bear or cougar in your yard - it's not the animal's fault!!! What the hell are you doing with a backyard in their habitat!!! Is there no where else you can live?

Nitram Draw · #80 July 19th, 2001, 09:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by capt_spoogy:
Captain Spoogy endorses Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

*** Does anyone know a way to cheaply extract hydrogen from water? ***

If you do know how I think you will become quite rich