Why no Save game Feature

[Saxon]

When you make a game easy to mod, you are explicitly choosing to let players do what they want with the game. In line with that philosophy, making it truly easy to save the game would make sense. The player can do what they want with it.

However, the designers have made a decision otherwise and there is little doubt it is a deliberate decision. After ten years of working on the game, they have not spent the hour or two to put in what most of the strategy community considers a standard part of any game. Let us be clear, we are talking about saves from an in game menu, saves which you can name.

Illwinter has made thousand of good design decision and a handful of bad ones. We argue about them on the forum every day. This is one that I think is a bad one.

And finally, can we get the terminology correct if we are going to insist on using play ground language in our discussions? You don�t say �sack up.� You say �suck it up� or, more insultingly, �suck it up, princess!� If you prefer, you can tell me to �cowboy up� or ask me if I am �afraid to play with the big boys.� Alternatively, you can call me a �big girl�s blouse�, a �Jessica� or a �pansy.� Where I grew up, you would tell me to �go play with the kids from Tranquille,� but then I would have to break your nose, so perhaps we should leave that out. Or we could just try arguing reasonably and leave the �funny� insults where they belong, while respecting each other. This isn�t a Blizzard forum�

[Archonsod]

I wouldn't say it's a concious decision, or necessarily a bad one. After all, the functionality is there (as in, moving and renaming files yourself), it's more a matter of polish (as in, it's not automated or presented within the game).
It's not the only rough edge the game has either. Much as I love additional content and similar fun stuff, I do wonder if perhaps the actual presentation is being over ignored.

[Edi]

Implementing a save game option would not be difficult. A subdirectory or three or five in each savegame subdir that store the turn files for e.g. 1 to 5 turns previous and then start overwriting them in order of oldest first would be about as much anybody could ask for. Whether we get it is another matter entriely.

Personally I don't need it in Dominions, never have. In some other types of strat games like the HoMM series and the old Warlords series I like it. In Dominons, I like the ironman approach. For me, it's no problem starting over if things get screwed up. Typically if I do have to start over, it'll be at a point early enough that it doesn't really matter and later I've generally managed a position strong enough that a few setbacks won't be eeough to stop me. Hurt, yes, but not stop. That's a part of the game for me. I don't like the "Take overly big risks and go back to a saved game if it fails" approach that many people like to use. The solution is to take smaller risks.

Edi

[PDF]

Archonsod said:
I wouldn't say it's a concious decision, or necessarily a bad one. After all, the functionality is there (as in, moving and renaming files yourself), it's more a matter of polish (as in, it's not automated or presented within the game).
It's not the only rough edge the game has either. Much as I love additional content and similar fun stuff, I do wonder if perhaps the actual presentation is being over ignored.

I do think likewise. I don't think IW "didn't want" to do it, rather that either they didn't have the idea or felt there was something more interesting/important to do.
Also note that Dom2 worked exactly the same and yet I don't remember much (any) rumbling about the lack of save feature..
Maybe the game is getting more popular so there's more demand for a "standard" feature that is missing.

Personally I'd be glad to have it but can live without.

Also note that if Dom doesn't have a real save feature like "all" other strat games have, it has *lots* of features that *no other* strat game has

[Caduceus]

I know I learn from my mistakes without a save game feature. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like one, but we've been spoiled by the save feature in games for years.

Now, confirming an end-turn click would be nice.

[Gandalf Parker]

Velusion said:

*shrugs* I paid $50+ for a game that is lacking the basic feature pretty much every other game on the planet has. I think I have a right to request this feature and not be told off-hand to *sack up*. Their motivation for creating Dom3 is not my concern, the product I bought from them is.

Everyone has the right to request any feature and the devs will listen to it. I think it only gets hot when a request tries to make it sound like the game is "broke" without it.

But what is being discussed in this thread isn't really my right to ***** or their right to publish what they want, but the fact that people here think that depriving people of choices and options on how to play a game is actually something good, to be desired. It boggles my mind.

Everything has its pros and cons. Its not a bad habit to get into to try and see that about any subject. Also any subject can be said with a choice of words that paints the picture a certain way. Such as "the fact that people here think that depriving people of choices and options on how to play a game is actually something good, to be desired" could be worded as "the truth that so many here believe that giving in to new gamers on workarounds or cheats is considered wrong" boggles my mind. (Im not saying thats my thought, just that its the same statement worded from the other side).

Gandalf Parker

[TwoBits]

Amen to the "are you sure you want to end your turn?" question/extra click feature! At least in SP games, grrr...

[Newthought]

HoneyBadger:
I turn public census and the higher powers at be against me all the time. Nowhere near the first. Apparantly my opinions are so hot-topic and my Rhetoric so blood-boiling that everyone feels comfortable in ranting against me.

First off, I never once said the game was too difficult. I am requesting a feature! Never once did I say, this game is too hard, I surrender. I said, I'm just fricken tired of spending three hours building up a force making one wrong move and then having to dedicate another three hours into doing the same damn thing is just not the fun.

Of course, as you know, there is no Save Game feature in life, I've made plenty of screwed up decisions back at Fork Union Military School to know that consequence. But that's the LEAST of things relevant. You don't have to tell me twice about competetion. It's Humanity's worst situation but yet from the fire brings the ashes of Greatness.
---------------------------------
Video games are not similulating challenges and have nothing to do with reality, Video Games are for YOUR enjoyment.

What I want that would make this game enjoyable is a save game feature.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? My god it's funny...
"No you can't enjoy the game, you have to play the way that I want, no Saves, otherwise it Magically makes me WANT to use Saves(???)"

Your (Indirect) preference NEVER overrides MY preference. Any opposing logic is down right ridicolous.

There is no emotion in my response (other then the fact that I had lost my original post in writing.)

It's just such a simple variation that I've spent more time reading excuses against it then if I were to put it actually IN.

I mean, god help me if I asked for a more indepth Tutorial. The Response would be.
"No, you can't have that tutorial, you just want the easy shortcut you lazy wimp, you need to spend the remanding four hours like the rest of us on it, otherwise it magically ruins the complexity of the game" (Don't be surprsied if a Fanboy would say that.) The Tutorial isn't bad however, it's an example though.

I have to use caps just to bring this final sentance out.

THERE IS A CHOICE BETWEEN THE TWO. LET THOSE WHO WANT SAVES USE THEM, AND LET THOSE WHO DON'T WANT SAVES LET THEM TURN THEM OFF!!! CALL IT HARDCORE MODE.

Honestly, can anyone make a good debatable reason to prove this statement is unacceptable.

Here I'll bring out the easiset argument against that.
"It betrays the Developer Vision and it ruins the game for the gamer".

A: If the Gamer ruins his own game, who cares!!!!!!! Let me "Ruin" my own game and "deprive" myself of "Ultimate" Happiness.

More importantly of all, WTH does the Developer Vision say, "We made sure to appeal to our Hardcore l337s not to include Saves." If anything, there in a different direction.

Pg 2 In the Dominions 3 manual states:
"We didn't have a deadline, nor any clear direction, apart from adding fun stuff and making the game more User-Friendly.......There are still plenty of things I would like to see in the game, though, so expect new content and ever-increasing modability in future patches."

What I see is good intentions and bringing more enjoyment to the game to more people. Are you guys trying to bring Good Intentions, or are you more interested in getting "your" way. (Spicy Challenge + Closer FTW)

-THERE IS A CHOICE BETWEEN THE TWO. LET THOSE WHO WANT SAVES USE THEM, AND LET THOSE WHO DON'T WANT SAVES LET THEM TURN THEM OFF!!! CALL IT HARDCORE MODE.-

AND LET MY PEOPLE GO!

-Edited Numerously

[Nightblade]

I would really appreciate a save game feature.

How many time after finishing a whole game, i would have liked to load a saved turn when i made an important strategic decision, to see what the game would have turned into if i selected a different option...

[Strages Sanctus]

What is so hard about ctrl C and ctrl V?

I would prefer that development/GUI design/testing time to spent on some other feature personally. We are talking about 2 people (only 1 of whom can do the coding afaik) who have full time jobs.

And no it wouldn't only take "X hours" none of has any idea how long it would take. And the people clamouring for a save feature wouldn't just accept a single overwriting save (they might say they would, but if that feature existed I bet the discussion would be "why can't I have multiple saves?")