patch 2.08 is out

[KRNVR]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

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Originally posted by KRNVR:
Why were the witchdoctors nerfed? And why was this listed under 'bugs'?

Because huts make poor libraries and guys living in huts do not read books

It felt thematic.

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Somebody living in those huts forges platemail hauberks, though... Hmmm... must be using those books in the forge.

"Makuto mighty Fire mage! Magic book... Fire!" (chucks it in the forge, and smiles proudly)

The Black Sorceror (played by John Cleese) leans in to speak to his God discretely, "This latest generation of Witch Doctors _are_ a bit dim, My Lord. But we are paying them less. We save enough on their recruitment to buy an entire unit of archers!"

"And how many in a unit?"

"Ah... _one_, Sir."

"Hrmm", growled the Lord of the Desert Sun pensively... "One, two, three, four, five becomes 1,3,6,10,15. Or what was once 75 has become 45... And five archers."

"I do not understand, Lord. These numbers, are they... a prophesy?"

"Yes. Of doom."

(OK, so I'm whining. But it's a _Classy_ whine.)

[SurvivalistMerc]

NT Jedi,

In the AD&D system, if the only enemy left on the battlefield were paralyzed, that enemy could simply be slain in the following combat round at the discretion of the victorious party. So I don't really see anything wrong with the fact that your pretender dies.

(For those of you who are wondering why the AD&D combat system is relevant to this discussion, please see NT Jedi's prior post.)

I think it would be much cleaner to just autokill all paralyzed enemies when they don't have non-paralyzed defenders. That way folks wouldn't become unhappy about how their pretender died due to the "time out" feature. I'm not a fan of the time out feature myself and agree that nonparalyzed attackers who are berserk or otherwise unable to retreat who survive 50 rounds ought to wind up in an adjacent friendly province if such exists.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by KRNVR:
Somebody living in those huts forges platemail hauberks, though... Hmmm... must be using those books in the forge.

"Makuto mighty Fire mage! Magic book... Fire!" (chucks it in the forge, and smiles proudly)

The Black Sorceror (played by John Cleese) leans in to speak to his God discretely, "This latest generation of Witch Doctors _are_ a bit dim, My Lord. But we are paying them less. We save enough on their recruitment to buy an entire unit of archers!"

"And how many in a unit?"

"Ah... _one_, Sir."

"Hrmm", growled the Lord of the Desert Sun pensively... "One, two, three, four, five becomes 1,3,6,10,15. Or what was once 75 has become 45... And five archers."

"I do not understand, Lord. These numbers, are they... a prophesy?"

"Yes. Of doom."

(OK, so I'm whining. But it's a _Classy_ whine.)

That almost made me want to reduce the research of other machakans as well. Hilarious!

[Norfleet]

Oh, paralyzation gets more interesting than that.

Suppose an SC goes into battle with a raised Astral + Fire shield, Personal Luck, Ethereal, Mirror Image, Mistform, Invulnerability. He becomes paralyzed and cannot move. Opponents continue to strike him: Some of THEM are paralyzed. Due to his awesome armor rating, and many protective spells, the opponent is unable to hurt him, but many enemies set themselves on fire and die trying to kill this paralyzed, immobile target. Eventually, the others decide they've had enough, break, and flee.

Now the battlefield consists entirely of two paralyzed sides that stare at each other, both unable to move: The routing Messages flash for both sides, yet neither can clear the field because all are immobilized.

Eventually, your SC is auto-killed because the battle drags on indefinitely....and paralyze appears to NEVER WEAR OFF. Ever! If it did, the paralyzed sides would eventually unparalyze and clear the field.....but they never do!

In this particular case, an SC that uses Astral Shield in the presence of paralyzers may as well be signing his own death warrant, because while paralyzation is deadly, it's not an instant game over....unless you manage to paralyze somebody while paralyzed!

[ February 16, 2004, 20:52: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Pocus]

about Arco golden age:
Very amusing theme, with a lot of inspiration too. I like the Icarus warrior susceptibility to fire for example. Congratulations! The graphics are cool too.
A bad point is that I spotted at once several typos (though I'm a foreigner who speak badly english). I would have though that the Shrapnel component of the team would make a double check?
Not a big deal anyway.

Thank again Illwinter for this patch, and all the efforts you are putting into this game.

[ February 16, 2004, 20:56: Message edited by: Pocus ]

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
NT Jedi,

In the AD&D system, if the only enemy left on the battlefield were paralyzed, that enemy could simply be slain in the following combat round at the discretion of the victorious party. So I don't really see anything wrong with the fact that your pretender dies.

If you've paralzyed an Ancient Red Dragon for 50 turns while playing AD&D... it's not going to make any difference if you can't hurt him during those turns. That's what happened they could not hurt him and he was killed by the game... NOT the units attacking. Also he wasn't the pretender just one of my supercombatants.


Being killed by the game because time exceeded the limit is wrong. Either they need to fix paralyzation so it doesn't Last the entire battle or they need to fix the auto-kill all attackers after X amount of turns has passed.

===============

I agree with Norfleet and his example... paralyzation is definitely a problem. At the very least this auto-kill after X turns should be changed to auto-flee instead.

[ February 16, 2004, 21:01: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Norfleet]

It's pretty easy to tell when a unit, especially an HoF unit, has been timekilled, too: A dead unit in the Hall of Fame has negative hitpoints denoting how heavily he was killed.

A timekilled unit, and maybe anything slain by an instant death spell, has some -9000 hitpoints....and there is nothing in the game which does that kind of damage normally.

[Coffeedragon]

Originally posted by Arryn:

* New theme for Arcoscephale, The Golden Era.
* Selectable number of starting provinces.
* Commander renaming.
* New battle afflictions.
* New weapon, Light Lance.

WOW!!

One (relatively) small thing I�d really like to see in the next patch:
[*]Dominion Overview Page. Shows all your choices made in the Create a God menu on one single page.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Coffeedragon:
One (relatively) small thing I�d really like to see in the next patch:

One relatively small thing I'd *REALLY* like to see in the next patch is for it not to crash every time a combat occurs!

[SurvivalistMerc]

NT Jedi,

Just so that we understand what we're discussing... In the AD&D combat system, your statement would be correct if the Red Dragon was somewhere that you could not reach him at all. For instance...he's across a river and you paralyzed him with paralyzation poison. You can't damage him because you can't reach him. Therefore, he's going to live.

In the AD&D system, you can automatically hit a paralyzed target, regardless of that target's AC. I realize that Dom 2 doesn't use that system and still makes you roll and get through protection. My hunch is that this is present due to the immobile pretenders who in effect start out unable to move yet magically active and must still be slain.

In the AD&D system, you also automatically damage the paralyzed target. It's either triple damage or in some places (some Versions of the game) you can just automatically slit the "helpless" target's throat...if it has a throat. Now...you have to be using a weapon that can affect the creature...and some creatures require magical weapons to hit them. If you don't have a magical weapon, you're not going to autokill a paralyzed creature that requires a magical weapon to hit.

Still, accounting for these intricacies, I think it would be imminently fair to allow the winning side to "autokill" helpless paralyzed targets on the Dominions battlefield. There is never that issue of whether you can physically reach the target. You always can. And no creature in Dom 2 is immune to normal weapons.

My proposed change is this: If you are helpless and don't have any defenders who aren't likewise helpless, you will be automatically killed if any opponent can reach you before the effect wears off. (This way if you're at the back of the battlefield and you're out 2 rounds you might be safe.) As a consequence of this proposed change, the "time out" factor wouldn't matter. Because your opponents wouldn't have to roll to hit you and sometimes miss. They would just automatically kill your SC due to his or her helpless condition.